Market for Space Opera/Space Fantasy

childeroland · Dec 15, 2009

I do read in the genre but I am wondering about anyone else's impressions on the desirability of Space Opera/Space Fantasy novels in today's market place? Are readers and agents currently responding more favorably to them or less so?

Liosse de Velishaf · Dec 15, 2009

*chuckles* Exactly which type of "Space Opera" are we talking about here? Pulp / Buck Rogers style, or something along the lines of Peter F. Hamilton or Vernor Vinge? Because as a reader, I'm always looking for more of the second type, but I don't think pulp space opera is very popoular right now. Of course, there's the third group with Larry Nivens Known Space in it, which I enjoy, but I don't know how much in-demand it is.

That second type is called "New Space Opera" and it's fairly popular right now. Vernor Vinge, Peter F. Hamilton, Alastair Reynolds, Ken Mcleod, and Stephen Baxter are well known writers in the genre.

Personally, I have some New Space Opera projects in varying stages of progress.

waylander · Dec 15, 2009

Over here the 'New Space Opera' is going pretty well. We had an editor from Gollancz talk to my writing group back in September and she said she wasn't seeing enough space-based SF.

Me&BacchusGoIntoABar · Dec 15, 2009

Liosse de Velishaf · Dec 15, 2009

SoloArtist said:
I'd like to write in that genre some eventually (Robotech is probably my greatest love in terms of stories that I've personally experienced), but I'm not so knowledgeable about space travel, etc. How hard do y'all think it would be to learn enough so that you wouldn't embarrass yourself too badly writing space opera?

Robotech is not space opera, although it's not far off.

The secret of space opera is there are much less stringent regulations for correct science. You should still apsire to as much as you can of course, but wormhole trains and FTL aren't exactly scientifically supported technologies, nor does New Space Opera necessarily focus on physics during in-system flight.

Waylander-- She sees plenty of space-based SF, really. Just keep on with whatever you're doin', yeah.

BillPatt · Dec 15, 2009

From an imperfect memory of a great article about space opera:

The largest problems in space opera revolve around logistics (FTL travel, time consequences of FTL Travel (The Forever War explores this well), as well as the usual issues of the battles themselves (You don't see lasers firing, how well can passive sensors work, speed of light issues with battle plots, etc.)

My favorite is: Notice how none of the ships ever run into space junk? Here we have ships exploding all over, but the ships run through these debris fields with ease. Yes, I know, shields....but the vaporizing junk should create a lot of flashes all over the shields.

Me&BacchusGoIntoABar · Dec 15, 2009

Liosse de Velishaf · Dec 15, 2009

A lot of good points, Bill, although several apply more to miltary SF. None of my space opera has massive ship battles, and not a lot of New Space Opera does either.

childeroland · Dec 15, 2009

I meant the second and third varieties (particularly stuff like Hamilton) primarily, but somewhat softer.

Liosse de Velishaf said:
*chuckles* Exactly which type of "Space Opera" are we talking about here? Pulp / Buck Rogers style, or something along the lines of Peter F. Hamilton or Vernor Vinge? Because as a reader, I'm always looking for more of the second type, but I don't think pulp space opera is very popoular right now. Of course, there's the third group with Larry Nivens Known Space in it, which I enjoy, but I don't know how much in-demand it is.

That second type is called "New Space Opera" and it's fairly popular right now. Vernor Vinge, Peter F. Hamilton, Alastair Reynolds, Ken Mcleod, and Stephen Baxter are well known writers in the genre.

Personally, I have some New Space Opera projects in varying stages of progress.

childeroland · Dec 15, 2009

Liosse de Velishaf said:
A lot of good points, Bill, although several apply more to miltary SF. None of my space opera has massive ship battles, and not a lot of New Space Opera does either.

Are ship battles a turn-off?

Me&BacchusGoIntoABar · Dec 15, 2009

Liosse de Velishaf · Dec 15, 2009

childeroland said:
Are ship battles a turn-off?

Not at all. As long as you do them well. hamilton had some great ship battles, for instance.

waylander · Dec 15, 2009

Liosse de Velishaf said:
Waylander-- She sees plenty of space-based SF, really. Just keep on with whatever you're doin', yeah.

No worries.
I'm halfway through an UF set around the New Forest. I write slow and there's no way I could bang out a space-based SF in 4 months.

Liosse de Velishaf · Dec 15, 2009

waylander said:
No worries.
I'm halfway through an UF set around the New Forest. I write slow and there's no way I could bang out a space-based SF in 4 months.

Lol. I'm still putting some R&D and plot design together, but I figure I'll get to the fun part pretty soon. My NSO might be a little more retro than Peter Hamilton's, though. No wormhole arms or biocircuits, or transhuman aliens here. Most advanced tech I got is FTL.

BillPatt · Dec 15, 2009

childeroland said:
Are ship battles a turn-off?

Not well-crafted one that respect known science and make the suspension of disbelief easy to sustain. OK, I can take a little instantaneous battle plotting (ignoring speed of light limitations), if it isn't too obvious. Just don't try to have engine sounds in space (Star Trek, et al)

OTOH, the long drawn out "does he love me" or "Tim kept his face a neutral mask, hiding his dislike for the Revivalist faction" ponderous plot development that goes on for ninety pages between events makes me want to fling the book across the room.

I have to say, I am occasionally turned off by these omnibus War and Peace sized novels, and won't buy them. Yet, I polished off Oath of Fealty last night in a single sitting. A nice 300 page yarn, respecting hard science, with just a little sociology thrown in. Perfect.

childeroland · Dec 15, 2009

What other things in the genre turn away you and others you've spoken with?

Shadow_Ferret · Dec 15, 2009

BillPatt said:
Not well-crafted one that respect known science and make the suspension of disbelief easy to sustain. OK, I can take a little instantaneous battle plotting (ignoring speed of light limitations), if it isn't too obvious. Just don't try to have engine sounds in space (Star Trek, et al)

I thought the whole point of Space Opera was that the science part was a little lax and often fudged. What's important is the adventure, not presenting hardcore science.

Liosse de Velishaf · Dec 15, 2009

childeroland said:
What other things in the genre turn away you and others you've spoken with?

There's nothing specific to the New Space Opera genre that turns people away. Slow plots, shallow action, bad characterization, bumpy pacing, lack of versimilitude; all the things that make a story in any genre annoying

Me&BacchusGoIntoABar · Dec 15, 2009

Liosse de Velishaf · Dec 15, 2009

SoloArtist said:
Bueller?

Technically, it is space opera.

Me&BacchusGoIntoABar · Dec 15, 2009

Liosse de Velishaf · Dec 15, 2009

SoloArtist said:
Thanks, it seemed fairly obvious but I wanted to make sure.

As a Robotech fan, I've wondered if it influenced any of the writers of BG. BG seems to me a lot like a live action Robotech series with many the same themes and storylines.

Well, there're only so many themes you can do in military SF of that sort... or storylines.

Also, perhaps you could clarify what you mean exactly by "Robotech"?

yttar · Dec 15, 2009

Robotech (aka Macross in Japan) is an anime that takes place aboard a giant battle ship. It also has this really annoying girl called Lin Min May. There was drama, a little bit of romance (because for some reason all the guys wanted to jump Lin Min May), and lots of space combat. I think the show was also from the 80s. But there was a prequel series not too long ago called Macross 0.

(In the words of my husband.) Basically, an alien ship crash lands on Earth, they rebuild it, use some of the tech to make mecha, and due to error with the FTL drive, the ship and the island it landed on gets transported to just outside Pluto, and the FTL disappears, stranding them there. So the first series is about them fighting the aliens who want their ship back.

It may also be considered the cartoon that brought anime to America (along with Voltron and Transformers).

Yttar

Me&BacchusGoIntoABar · Dec 15, 2009

Me&BacchusGoIntoABar · Dec 15, 2009

Market for Space Opera/Space Fantasy

childeroland

What happened to my LIFE?!

Liosse de Velishaf

waylander

Who's going for a beer?

Me&BacchusGoIntoABar

Liosse de Velishaf

BillPatt

Me&BacchusGoIntoABar

Liosse de Velishaf

childeroland

What happened to my LIFE?!

childeroland

What happened to my LIFE?!

Me&BacchusGoIntoABar

Liosse de Velishaf

waylander

Who's going for a beer?

Liosse de Velishaf

BillPatt

childeroland

What happened to my LIFE?!

Shadow_Ferret

Court Jester

Liosse de Velishaf

Me&BacchusGoIntoABar

Liosse de Velishaf

Me&BacchusGoIntoABar

Liosse de Velishaf

yttar

practical experience, FTW

Me&BacchusGoIntoABar

Me&BacchusGoIntoABar