Just thought I'd share what my mystery is about & ask a question

HistorySleuth

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Well, I guess its a mystery. This is what I did for NaNoWriMo, which I am still working on to finish the story. This is my little Synopsis I posted at the NaNo site.

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When three small coffins slide out from the bank of the Wiscoy Creek during a dredging operation, it was the last thing Dave Robertson of the Lamont Weekly Times expected to be reporting on. He had been sent out to cover clean up efforts after the latest storm, but even he could see―this was not some long forgotten family plot. Pinned to the tattered clothing hanging off the skeletons were pieces of old Wiscoy Dairy milk cartons, each displaying a photo of a missing child. Dave had never stumbled upon a story this big in their rural area where there were more cows than people. Readying his camera, before the county sheriffs arrived to stop him, he zoomed in on the remains to discover a familiar face from his childhood. It looked just like Sally, one of the many foster children his parents had cared for over the years―one his father said had been "placed elsewhere". Is this really what he had meant?

A lot of children went through his parents house since 1985―his father handling all the details. Did that mean they should expect to find more bodies? How could he report on the biggest story of his career knowing his father could be a murderer?
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Now I hope you will please bear with me as I normally write non-fiction. All I read for pleasure is mystery/suspense/thriller which is why I chose it for my NaNo novel. I have a few questions. No mater how many time I read what third person is, an what first person is I'm still a bit confused.

My MC Dave Robertson has a few issues. Fear of attics, discusses things in his head with himself (remnants of an imaginary friend that he needed when he was a toddler), clues that point to his dad (which also really point to someone else but that's not more obvious till later), finding out he's adopted then wondering if he was really abducted, getting to really like the CSI, Pepper Black, who unfortunately is starting to look at Dave's dad as the killer despite Dave trying to keep ahead of her. Dave is a reporter. He is promised an exclusive if he keeps the detail about the milk carton pieces quiet. He thinks he was asked to work with Pepper to help, but Pepper is really keeping him close to get close to the dad. So I guess that would be character driven? It is only viewed through Dave -- what he hears, sees and does.

Dave is my POV throughout the story, except for a few chapters from the killers point of view (what he's doing while all this investigating is going on which he doesn't know the details of since hes not there) I don't say the killers name in those chapters.

Question:
If I say 'Dave' went to the store is that third person because 'I' went to the store would be first person? Actually I've avoided using the word "I", since the way I have the voice in Dave's head is "I" hope their not out of ice cream. (Obviously these are just my examples) I also italicize his head's voice.
 

jeseymour

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So your question is what's the difference between third person and first person? Third person would be like -"Sally decided that now might be a good time to call for backup, because it looked like there might be more than just the one guy. She thought there might even be as many as five or six, and they were all bigger than she was." Same scene in first person -"I could see that there was more than just the one guy. It looked like he had four or five friends, and they were all the size of refrigerators. I decided to call for backup." There are also differences in third person, there's omniscient, limited and maybe something else too. Omniscient is when you can be in everybody's head, it's an all knowing narrator, I think it also tends to have an intrusive narrator. This is all stuff that I barely remember from my English degree, so I may be off. Most writers using third person nowadays use limited, you can only be in one person's head at a time (usually a chapter, but you can switch narrators when you switch scenes within a chapter.) There is nothing more annoying than being in everybody's head at once. POV errors are some of the most common in writing by people who are new to writing fiction.

Does any of this help? :D

Welcome, by the way. :welcome:
 

heyjude

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Jesey gave great advice, History. I just wanted to say it sounds like a great plot!
 

HistorySleuth

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Oh good, then it sounds like I've done it right. Whew! Thanks jerseymour. Sometimes adding definations to things is what makes it confusing.

I'm glad my plot sounds good too-- thanks heyjude. I've read enough over my lifetime. It was really a fun thing doing NaNo. Took me a bit to shut off the inner editor since what I normally write is local history and the facts have to be correct. Fiction is so liberating! You can make people do what you want, so much fun. When I started I just kept on going and at some points my characters led the way with a mind of their own almost, it was so cool to find my brain could do that.

I have another fiction piece I'm working on, (a piece of it is posted here somewhere) but I didn't do the go with the flow way of writing. I edited some before going on. I see a big difference in the result. In my other book it was pointed out on these forums, I was telling (which is what I'm used too with history) more then showing. In my nano book it was almost all 'show', and lots of dialogue. So, I think I like it better when I let the right side of my brain tell the left side to shut the heck up, you'll get your chance when its time to edit!
 
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Chase

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I really like your title, The Milk Carton Murders.

My minor in college was history and my grad school teaching component was English from an historic point of view.

I edited and wrote army manuals for ten years and later seven years of columns in three Montana newspapers, very little history, though. I've also just recently begun a mystery novel after lots of non-fiction.

My favorite amateur sleuth mystery is Stephen King's The Colorado Kid, published by Hard Case Crime. Like yours, the sleuths are newspaper people talking over and snooping into a long-unsolved death.

I admire you being able to write an entire novel without stopping to edit. I don't think I'd be able. I have to write, re-write, go back and change, send it to a fellow writer, agonize, then change some more, ha ha ha.

Good luck with your mystery.
 

HistorySleuth

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Your last paragraph, Chase, is how I am (or maybe was, now) doing my other fiction story. But to do NaNo (50k words in 30 days) with work, scouts, teenage kids etc .... I would have never made the goal if I looked back. ;) My boss snagged it to read and edit for spelling etc, but she said it was working well, was getting into it, and she was trying to guess who is really the killer, so that's good. I have a goal to finish it this month, then leave it alone for a while. By the time I'm done with my taxes I'll be looking forward to editing!
 

BeluvdLily

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What an excellent idea for a book! I wish it were available now. lol. Sounds really good. :)
 
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HistorySleuth

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Well Amie and Ken, I'll remember you two when I get to the point where I'm brave enough to have someone (other then my boss who knows me and I see often) toss me some feedback. I'm going to remember what you both said. :) I have confidence in my historical writing, but fiction ... a little nervous about it.
 

Emthewriter

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I recognize the title from the NaNo boards. I was curious about the story, because I was distantly associated with a child who was featured on a milk carton when I was young.

I second whatever one else said. It sounds like a very interesting plot. I would read it!
 

ChristineR

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What you're suggesting is a form of limited third person which is common in mystery novels--we get into two heads, that of the sleuth, and that of the killer. Often the killer's head is pretty incoherent and he might be more interested in details like arranging the bodies in the coffins than in normal stuff like telling someone his name, or phoning his son Dave. (Obviously that would give the whole thing away if you put it in there.)

Some style books suggest the italics for thoughts, others use quotes. But in general you don't put italics in manuscripts because they can be hard for the typesetters to recognize. Underline them instead.
 

heyjude

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I read somewhere that italics for thoughts are getting outmoded? No?
 

jeseymour

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I just put thoughts in quotations and add instead of - he said, - he thought. If you don't want a dialog tag you can say - thoughts ran around in his head, or something similar, then put your quotations, etc. There is a thread on italics in novels going on in the novel section of the board.
 

Chase

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I read somewhere that italics for thoughts are getting outmoded? No?

As is most everything else about my ancient self, I'm sure much of my writing is outmoded. Chase grimaces. Now I have thought police after me!

My current style for thoughts is italics--as Christine mentioned, underlined in manuscript. If we don't want to discuss the practice here, please point to discussions and articles on the subject.
 

Snowstorm

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Can't wait to see it also splashed on the big screen, HistorySleuth. Great story. Good luck.
 

Jamesaritchie

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Just know what third person is won't do it. You have to know what third person limited is. Third person limited means that you can only follow one POV character at a time. You can only reveal what that one character sees, hears, tastes, touches, smells, feels, thinks, believes, or knows.

If you want to reveal what a different POV character sees, hears, tastes, touches, smells, feels, thinks, believes, or knows, you must first change scenes or chapters.

As for thoughts, never use quotation marks. By the time the reader figures out that someone isn't speaking, it's too late. Save quote marks for their intended purpose, which is when a character says someout out loud.

Unimportant, routine thoughts are simply worked into the narrative: It was getting late, but she still thought it would be a good idea to see Johnson before going home.

Or: Maybe Sarah was lying? Maybe everything was a lie. Maybe the entire case was just a ruse to keep her occupied?

Italics for thought is not, in any way, outmoded, but, as always, thoughts set apart with italics should be very important thoughts, ones that startle, or that come as a sudden revelation: That meant Julian was the killer, she thought.

This should be done sparingly, just as you use exclamation marks sparingly.
 

DWSTXS

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I agree that the title is a good one. The plot sounds interesting too. It's a good idea for a story.
 

HistorySleuth

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This has all been very helpful. I figure when its done, I'll atempt an agent. I can handle rejection. Don't know till you try. I will be reading carefully on manuscript format, so the underline tip was helpful. I will also check out the italics discussion in the other forum.

So it seems I'm doing third person limited. (Just happened that way) Only Daves head, and seperate chapters as to what is in the killers head. I haven't changed POV in the same chapter between Dave and the killer.

For my own reference at the moment, until I switch to manuscript form, I will leave the thoughts in his head italics -- since well, it is like another person -- his thoughts, but not. I typed a scene where it first happened to him. As he's been working on this case, and since he saw what he knew as Sally in the coffin, its been bringing back memories. Can I post the section (just the incident part of the chapter) and if so where? (Think its about half a page.)
 
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heyjude

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I think the topic of how to handle thoughts is relevant. Feel free to complain if you disagree. :)

Found an interesting discussion on italics/underlining.
 
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HistorySleuth

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It was an interesting disussion on italics/underlining (although it got a bit testy. That's why I mainy read, and not post too many places.). So if I do submit to an agent I'll check their requested submission guidelines first. I'm willing to do some format changes, if thats what makes them happy. :)

Looking at the section of the story I mentioned above, it is actually about two pages. I think I'll wait. Not sure I am ready to post it over in the SYW.
 

Chase

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I think the topic of how to handle thoughts is relevant. Feel free to complain if you disagree. :)

Found an interesting discussion on italics/underlining.

Thanks for providing the link, Heyjude. Ha, ha ha, it did get somewhat testy. Since I only visit three areas of Absolute Write with any regularity, I'd rather discuss the unexplored areas of italics here.

I am SO surprised at times that Mac hasn't sacked me like JGKelly after my "little steaming pile." Gulp!
 

Hip-Hop-a-potamus

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Fabulous sounding premise. Can't wait to read it. Get cracking!

FWIW, I just got back from my second trip to NY this past summer. Drove all the way from Milwaukee to Trumansburg. Absolutely beautiful. My #1 WIP takes place mostly around Ithaca, which I adore.