Cover Art?

Bookewyrme · Dec 10, 2009

Ok, this may have been asked already, and if so just point me in the right direction since searching the site hasn't brought anything up.

Anyhow, how does Cover Art work? Specifically, do you have to let the Publisher choose the artist/design the cover? Or can you sort of designate an artist/artwork/style? What I'm getting at is, I have a particular artist in mind who I really want to do the cover art for my novel once it's accepted, but if the publishing house won't allow me to choose, I figure I should know before I make any grand plans, yaknow?

thothguard51 · Dec 10, 2009

publishers have full control over the artwork, editing and even the name of the book. They bought it and can do with it whatever they want.

This is not to say if you present them with an idea that they won't listen, but because they already have artist and designers on staff, they know what they are going to pay and the quality of the work.

I wanted Frazetta, sadly, I waited too long before starting my writing...

Kitty Pryde · Dec 10, 2009

The publisher chooses because they know what will sell your book to its audience.

Bookewyrme · Dec 10, 2009

Hrm. So if I had a specific picture already, asked them to use it, and it wouldn't cost them extra would they be more likely to use it? And what sort of compensation do the artists normally get from publishing houses? I mean, do they get royalties like the writer, or just a flat fee?

Kitty Pryde · Dec 10, 2009

I very highly doubt they would use a picture you chose, unless it happened to be exactly what their designers were looking for.

Check out this tale of cover art woe from an EXTREMELY prolific spec fic author: http://pbackwriter.blogspot.com/2008/12/dilemma.html She has about a zillion books published and she had exactly no say in the creation of her cover.

veinglory · Dec 10, 2009

It depends somewhat on the publisher, but most will pick their own art, using their own artists according to their set pay scale. They will ask the author's thoughts and opinions, and then generally ignore them.

But, honestly, publishers know best about what will make stores stock a book and make customers buy it. If you choose a good publisher you really are better off leaving it to them.

Bookewyrme · Dec 10, 2009

Hmm, I see. Well, thanks guys. Not what I wanted to hear, but better to know now than to make some silly mistakes. Thanks again.

suki · Dec 10, 2009

Bookewyrme said:
Hrm. So if I had a specific picture already, asked them to use it, and it wouldn't cost them extra would they be more likely to use it? And what sort of compensation do the artists normally get from publishing houses? I mean, do they get royalties like the writer, or just a flat fee?

First, it depends on your contract - but few authors, and almost no new/debut authors, get any real say in the cover. The publisher might, as a courtesy, ask your opinion, but not even that always happens.

As for making suggestions, you certainly can feel free to do so, but be prepared that marketing often dictates the cover, and the if its a large trade publisher they will have design staff who will design the layout and cover/work with the cover artist.

While an artist/photographer hired to specifically do the cover will get compensated by the publisher in some way (I have no idea of rates or terms, but I suspect flat fee), the publisher could also use an inhouse team to do the cover or purchase some image to use.

So, after you have an offer from the publisher, and more likely after the book has been purchased, you can say "Hey, I like this image - can you consider it?" But be prepared that marketing and design might not care what you suggest and you will likely have no say.

And if you are set on the cover, it better be in the contract, and few publishers will agree to that.

~suki

Brindle Chase · Dec 10, 2009

Bookewyrme said:
Hrm. So if I had a specific picture already, asked them to use it, and it wouldn't cost them extra would they be more likely to use it? And what sort of compensation do the artists normally get from publishing houses? I mean, do they get royalties like the writer, or just a flat fee?

Depends on the publisher, the picture and the book. I've never heard of a publisher not listening to an author for input... but I would say, its rare that the author gets to "design" the cover... I plan to try, but like it's been said... its up to the publisher... so make your design top notch, so they will love it as much as you do!!

Toothpaste · Dec 10, 2009

Remember too it isn't about saving them time and money, publishers care about covers as much as you do. The covers they choose are extremely important to them because people judge books on their covers.

But they know the market, they know what's selling. What's more publishers often have to appeal to the buyers of the big box bookstores who also dictate what kind of covers they want. There is so much more to a cover than just slapping on a picture. You offering to help them won't be seen as a benefit, even if the art could be acquired at a low cost thanks to your efforts.

Sometimes you get a say, sometimes you don't. I always advise stating your mind, because they may listen to you. But don't expect them to.

Bookewyrme · Dec 10, 2009

Its not so much that I want to design the whole cover, as I have an image specifically in mind.

And one of the reasons I am so invested in this (which might seem trivial) is that soooo often I pick up books with really awesome covers, and then I hate the writing, or the cover reflects the reality of the characters extremely badly (as in, sometimes you can't tell who's actually supposed to be on the cover). And then there's the opposite problem, the books I don't read or even look twice at for a long time because the art on the cover repels me. I figure, I, as the author, know best what sort of art-style will best complement the characters I've created. Note: This is strictly an art issue, not a design issue so much. Design I'll leave to the experts.

But, um, yea, that's why I'm worrying about it. And I know I can probably trust the publisher for this but.... :Shrug:

Toothpaste · Dec 10, 2009

Trust me Bookewyrme, every other author has thought the same thing. Wants a cover that aptly reflects their book, thinks of artists they respect and want. We all think we know best (and sometimes, we do - trust me, on this I have very personal experience). You are so not alone on this. But we don't get the say, that's just how it works. I'm not talking just design here either. I'm talking all of it. Art etc.

You don't need to explain why you'd like the choice, out of everyone on the planet, the people in this forum get it. We really do. But it doesn't matter. It's not how it works.

Bookewyrme · Dec 10, 2009

Oh I knew you would, otherwise I wouldn't have asked in the first place, or bothered explaining. You guys are pretty much all the bee's knees. ^_^

~Minor derail. 'Bee's knees' is a very very strange, bizarre saying.

Mr Flibble · Dec 10, 2009

Bookewyrme said:
~Minor derail. 'Bee's knees' is a very very strange, bizarre saying.

I prefer mutt's nuts

Anyway, a lot is going to depend on all sorts pf things you may have not considered. The publisher's target audience may be slightly different from who you thought, requiring something different. The marketing department will know, say, that X on the cover attracts buyers of Y demographic. That a picture of Z will turn them off, in droves.

I've been lucky, I've been asked, in lots of detail, what I wanted for my covers. The two guys look very close to how I pictured them. I know of some authors who ended up with a dragon on the cover when there wasn't a dragon in the book....

Ask, but don't expect I think would be the best advice.

swvaughn · Dec 10, 2009

Kitty Pryde said:
I very highly doubt they would use a picture you chose, unless it happened to be exactly what their designers were looking for.

Check out this tale of cover art woe from an EXTREMELY prolific spec fic author: http://pbackwriter.blogspot.com/2008/12/dilemma.html She has about a zillion books published and she had exactly no say in the creation of her cover.

Oh, man... poor Lynn! I see this was posted a year ago, but I hadn't seen it yet. I've read and loved a couple of her Darkyn books. The original-and-final comparison is so sad... the original really was way better.

She handled it like a saint, though. Her what-to-do list is hilarious.

James D. Macdonald · Dec 10, 2009

Your friend the artist could always submit their portfolio to the publisher's art director....

Bookewyrme · Dec 10, 2009

Well, could be worth a try, Uncle Jim! And I suppose, even if they don't accept the art, I'll still have a really wonderful picture associated with the book. ^_^

Also *after rereading more carefully* that's so sad about Ms. Viehl's cover! At least it wasn't the first book of the series though, so people probobly still picked it up and read it, since they wanted to finish the series. I wonder how many authors have had their debut-novel come out like that, and had it kill their career? *ponders*

Mr Flibble · Dec 10, 2009

sonya bateman said:
Oh, man... poor Lynn! I see this was posted a year ago, but I hadn't seen it yet.

At least he didn't end up with three hands

That author's reaction was pretty cool too - there's even a youtube book trailer for it lol

Nateskate · Dec 10, 2009

Kitty Pryde said:
I very highly doubt they would use a picture you chose, unless it happened to be exactly what their designers were looking for.

Check out this tale of cover art woe from an EXTREMELY prolific spec fic author: http://pbackwriter.blogspot.com/2008/12/dilemma.html She has about a zillion books published and she had exactly no say in the creation of her cover.

I have to say that I loved her rant!

swvaughn · Dec 10, 2009

IdiotsRUs said:
At least he didn't end up with three hands

That author's reaction was pretty cool too - there's even a youtube book trailer for it lol

Eek! That is sad (and funny... OH, must NOT LAUGH at cover misfortunes! Must remember that It Could Happen To Me!)

But I'm going to look up the YouTube video.

Tasmin21 · Dec 10, 2009

For my own cover ( <---- ) my editor did ask me if there was a particular cover style that I liked. I gave her a list of three different cover artists that I've always enjoyed, but ultimately they wound up going the model/photograph route.

And honestly, I think they did an awesome job. Especially with the clothing on the guy, it is exactly what my hero would wear. (when they started talking leather coat, I had visions of a big leather trench, and that would have been SO not right)

So have faith in your publisher's art department! They know what they're doing.

Stacia Kane · Dec 10, 2009

IdiotsRUs said:
Anyway, a lot is going to depend on all sorts pf things you may have not considered. The publisher's target audience may be slightly different from who you thought, requiring something different. The marketing department will know, say, that X on the cover attracts buyers of Y demographic. That a picture of Z will turn them off, in droves.

Ditto.

The thing I've had to learn to remember is that you, the writer, are thinking of the cover that reflects your book and "fits" your book.

The publisher is thinking of the cover that will SELL your book.

They want to design something that will reflect both your brand and theirs, and know what covers in their experience have attracted the most readers. They're thinking of how it fits in with other books in your genre at their house and others. They're thinking of what bookstore buyers will like, because bookstore buyers also judge books by their covers. (I know several writers who lost covers they adored because bookstore buyers didn't feel it was eye-catching enough, or they didn't think it would be easy to feature/would look good on endcaps or in their newsletters, or they just plain didn't like it and it made them less excited about the book, and so they ordered fewer copies.)

They may have a slightly different audience in mind for your book; you might think your book is pretty much directly in one genre but they think they can attract large numbers of another genre's audience as well, and so change the cover or design the cover to appeal to both audiences rather than just the one you had in mind.

It's hard to trust and believe in them when you're looking at a cover you hate and feel is all wrong, but surprisingly (or not surprisingly, take your pick) the publisher is often right, and the cover you think is awful gets a huge and very enthusiastic response from readers. *shrug*

Cyia · Dec 10, 2009

Stacia Kane said:
It's hard to trust and believe in them when you're looking at a cover you hate and feel is all wrong, but surprisingly (or not surprisingly, take your pick) the publisher is often right, and the cover you think is awful gets a huge and very enthusiastic response from readers. *shrug*

And then there are covers like LIAR.

Kitty Pryde · Dec 10, 2009

Cyia said:
And then there are covers like LIAR.

Technically, if bloggers hadn't raised momentum with complaining about that cover, the book would have sold just fine. It was an okay looking cover. (While I do think it's deplorable that they would totally whitewash a book cover, and they were right to change it...) The cover itself was sellable. The whitewashing of characters on book covers is itself a (shameful and racist) marketing technique.

And to be totally fair...Liar got a ton of exposure due to that cover and probably sold even more than if they'd had no controversy, or if they'd started off with a biracial girl on the cover.

Cyia · Dec 10, 2009

I don't doubt it was saleable, but it certainly wasn't a case of the publishers were right.

(*sigh* I'm in soapbox mode today. Just ignore the crazy woman with the megaphone and go on about your business. :Soapbox:

)

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