Suspension of belief in a synopsis? [Archive]

View Full Version : Suspension of belief in a synopsis?

Julie Worth

07-28-2005, 06:49 AM

I just had a publisher reject a thriller after reading the synopsis, saying she was not able to “suspend belief” [sic]. Now, I wasn’t aware that you had to suspend belief (or disbelief) while reading a synopsis. Especially with thrillers, where plot elements are supposed to be outlandish. Was she off base?

SLake

07-28-2005, 07:25 AM

Welcome to the weird and wacky world of submission editors!

To my understanding, the creature meant, 'unable to believe the story could actually happen,' or believe whatever you had written about your work -- apologies for stating the obvious, but at least you were given a comment, which in my estimation is constructive, even if you consider that comment to be way off base with your understanding of what synopsis should constitute.'

Around the Net and here, you can find many suggestions on how to write synopsis,' even by editors and agents themselves. Not surprisingly, the advice varies.
But basically if it sounds excitingly saleable (and agrees with whatever seasonal fetish they think is in vogue) they'll buy it, that's how it works.

Easy, eh?

Jamesaritchie

07-28-2005, 07:57 AM

I just had a publisher reject a thriller after reading the synopsis, saying she was not able to “suspend belief”. Now, I wasn’t aware that you had to suspend belief while reading a synopsis. Especially with thrillers, where plot elements are supposed to be outlandish. Was she off base?

I don't think "outlandish" is a good word to describe thriller plot elements. I read a lot of thrillers, and the last thing I want is an outlandish plot. I have to believe it every step of the way, else the books loses me completely.

I wouldn't want to read a synopsis and think, "I just don't believe this."

maestrowork

07-28-2005, 08:02 AM

Like in Dan Brown's Angels and Demons... they were able to fly from Boston to Geneva in 1 hour... unbelievable. If the story is full of stuff like that, it would be difficult for me to suspend my disbelief.

Julie Worth

07-28-2005, 05:46 PM

I don't think "outlandish" is a good word to describe thriller plot elements. I read a lot of thrillers, and the last thing I want is an outlandish plot. I have to believe it every step of the way, else the books loses me completely.

I wouldn't want to read a synopsis and think, "I just don't believe this."

That's just it. If you read the MS, it's believable, but if you condense it down, it might not be. If you condense anything enough, it can seem unreal. So it's just unfair to hold a synopsis to the same standard as you would a novel.

brinkett

07-28-2005, 05:51 PM

If the novel is believable but the synopsis isn't, you're probably leaving something vital out of the synopsis.

icerose

07-28-2005, 08:05 PM

I say post your synopsis so we have something to work with. Someone might be able to identify the problem because there are many different tastes on this board.

Honey Nut Loop

07-28-2005, 10:40 PM

here here, icerose

Jamesaritchie

07-28-2005, 11:06 PM

That's just it. If you read the MS, it's believable, but if you condense it down, it might not be. If you condense anything enough, it can seem unreal. So it's just unfair to hold a synopsis to the same standard as you would a novel.

I don't know. I think it's the writer's job to write the synopsis in a way that makes it sound believable. The synopsis, especially for new writers, is often even more important than the novel because unless it's done right, no one is is ever going to read the novel.

Now, the way you wrote it may be just fine. Each agent and each editor will have a different opinion of what is and isn't believable in a synopsis, what does and doesn't sound interesting in a synopsis, etc. Sometimes you just have to find the right agent or editor.

But the job of a synopsis is to describe the novel in such a way that an agent or editor will say, "Yes, this sounds like a good novel." And part of a good novel is believability, even if the events within are impossible. It may be you're playing up, overemphasizing, the wrong parts of the novel.

It may also be you're doing everything perfectly, and you just happened to hit an editor who doesn't like the way you do things.

James D. Macdonald

07-28-2005, 11:13 PM

When you're writing thriller outlines do try to avoid plots that sound like Pinky and the Brain discarded them for being unworkable.

SLake

07-29-2005, 05:32 AM

So it's just unfair to hold a synopsis to the same standard as you would a novel.

It's 'unfair' as you say, but the publisher has briefly but kindly explained to you that they have a problem with your synopsis.

No, you can't 'hold a synopsis to the same standard as you would a novel,' I agree with you, but the publisher did not.

Personally, the synopsis' I write for male publishers are pantiless can-cans. For women, irresistably romantic hunks in ideal settings. When I don't know whether the publisher is m/f or even gay! my problem then is combining all those themes.

The MS content itself is only a secondary consideration, which I fit somewhere into the above.
:wag:

Garpy

07-30-2005, 08:24 PM

I know what you're saying Julie....quite often, a plot device can be massaged to the point of plausibility, with enough fluffy words.....whereas stated simply, in a synopsis, its implausability stands out like a sore thumb.

I think you're just going to have to work on how you slide that plot point into the synopsis....couching it within a cleverly worded phrase might fix the problem, but then....if it really is too outlandish a plot point, then you may have to rethink your story.

Julie Worth

07-30-2005, 08:35 PM

...On 30th April, 1945 the allies secretly surrendered to Germany - six hours later the surrender was withdrawn...

See now, that's unbelievable, yet I want to read more!

maestrowork

07-30-2005, 08:38 PM

See now, that's unbelievable, yet I want to read more!

Not really. It's plausible. And if it's an alternate universe story, then it's VERY plausible.

But if you say a man crossed the Atlantic Ocean in 15 days in a cracked bath tub... then it's just outrageous...

Jamesaritchie

07-30-2005, 10:20 PM

See now, that's unbelievable, yet I want to read more!

I don't really find this unbelievable because I can conjure several reasons why such a thing might have happened, and could really have happened.

Just because something didn't happen doens't mean it couldn't have happened, and that's the difference. It's, "Okay, can I think of a circumstance where this is plausible, even if I know it didn't really happen."

To this, I can think of circumstances where it might have happened, even though I know it didn't. Or did it? Maybe it did, and we were never told for reasons of national security?

Garpy

07-31-2005, 03:06 PM

Yeah, my tagline is perhaps a valid example of what you're talking about, Julie. At first read it does appear an impossibility....but, by not saying WHY this event occurred, upfront, I'm inviting the reader to take a closer look.

Obviously, in the book itself, the events that lead to this temporary surrender have got to be believable, and I guess I got that right, because Orion bought it.

However...I never had to synopsize the events. They bought it on the strength of a loose teaser blurb I put together, and on the finished manuscript. I know that if I'd had to sell it to them on the synopsis, I would certainly have agonized over how I described one particular plot event....but there is always a way you can phrase it so that it doesn't jump out of the page as being unbelievable.

Garpy

07-31-2005, 03:13 PM

In fact....if you take a number of successful books out there and try and write a synopsis for them, you'll find quite a few stories that simply sound implausible when stated with that kind of brevity.

There's some elasticity to what is believable....and some good books stretch it as far as it'll go before it snaps. You've just got to find a good way to describe it for your synopsis...or, is there a way you can tell your story without mentioning the unbelievable plot point?

Can you post your synopsis here? It might help us to help you?

Julie Worth

07-31-2005, 04:56 PM

Can you post your synopsis here? It might help us to help you?

I'm leery of doing that. What if the book were picked up? Heavens! Anyway, this was the only person who found the synopsis unbelievable. It struck me as weird, and since no one here has had the same experience, it probably is an aberration.

The synopsis can only hurt you, in my opinion, especially if the work is a thriller. The purpose is to get the agent to read the book, but if the agent already knows what happens, having read the synopsis, how can the book be thrilling?

Recently, a couple of agents passed on this book, but liked the logline for my WIP, and asked to see it when finished. So it sent them the MS and a one paragraph teaser, calling it a Short Synopsis. So far, so good.

aruna

07-31-2005, 05:04 PM

Julie Worth

07-31-2005, 05:17 PM

By the way, just to nitpick, I believe the correct term is "suspension of disbelief"

Thanks. I've fixed it. And maybe that's was the editor's problem. (Very nice website, BTW...although, maybe it's just on my end, but most of the links have nothing in them.)

aruna

07-31-2005, 07:35 PM

(Very nice website, BTW...although, maybe it's just on my end, but most of the links have nothing in them.)

Funny - with me they work fine!

azbikergirl

07-31-2005, 07:47 PM

They work for me too :). Very well done, Sharon.

icerose

07-31-2005, 08:15 PM

I'm leery of doing that. What if the book were picked up? Heavens! Anyway, this was the only person who found the synopsis unbelievable. It struck me as weird, and since no one here has had the same experience, it probably is an aberration.

The synopsis can only hurt you, in my opinion, especially if the work is a thriller. The purpose is to get the agent to read the book, but if the agent already knows what happens, having read the synopsis, how can the book be thrilling?

Recently, a couple of agents passed on this book, but liked the logline for my WIP, and asked to see it when finished. So it sent them the MS and a one paragraph teaser, calling it a Short Synopsis. So far, so good.

Go with how you feel, but I am not exactly sure why you are leery of posting a synopsis. I don't really see how that would effect anything.
:Shrug:
Sara

aruna

07-31-2005, 08:18 PM

They work for me too :). Very well done, Sharon.

Compliment Mike Coombes, who's also a member of this board. He did it! So, if anyone wants a website done by a writing colleague at a very reasonable rate, and who communicates well and tries to do what you want, try Mike!

Hey! My new avatar works!!!!

Cathy C

07-31-2005, 09:28 PM

Originally posted by Julie Worth
The synopsis can only hurt you, in my opinion, especially if the work is a thriller. The purpose is to get the agent to read the book, but if the agent already knows what happens, having read the synopsis, how can the book be thrilling?

I don't agree with this premise, Julie. Of course, it's absolutely up to you, but my view of an agent is very different than this. An agent is NOT a reader that you have to enthrall and keep guessing. They are your co-author, your muse, your partner in the sale process. If you don't give them the entire package right up front, there's no way for the agent to know whether you have created a viable plot, or realistic characters --- in other words, a book that can be sold. If they don't know the "spoilers" about the book, including the major plot points and ending, then why would they believe that they can make money from it? Why would they want to look at the whole ms.?

I prefer to give synopses that tell the entire story in an easily understandable manner. Yes, the agent will know the entire plot when they read the book, but the enjoyment of how you reach that goal won't be any less. I see lots of spoilers in reviews about books, but that doesn't mean I don't want to read them.

FWIW, you might reconsider giving more information in the synopsis. It might be that the information you're withholding to keep it a thriller is taking away from the suspension of disbelief. JMHO! :)

Julie Worth

07-31-2005, 09:46 PM

An agent is...your co-author, your muse, your partner in the sale process.

Really! So who is your agent?

Cathy C

07-31-2005, 10:07 PM

We're with Writer's House in New York.

mistri

07-31-2005, 10:58 PM

It doesn't matter whether you spoil editors, either. They want to know whether your story holds any promise (the synopsis). When they read the book after requesting it, they're not so much looking for surprises, so much as wanting to see whether you can live up to (through the writing of the book) the promise (you made in the synopsis).

Or, from another angle - it doesn't matter if they know the facts of a plot twist - they want, when it comes to reading the book, to know how you *get* to the twists/resolution.

For example, in a romance novel, most have a happy ending - it's the journey there that counts (IMO). Yet I've plenty of romance synopses where authors have made the ending sound really vague, because they didn't want to 'spoil me'. I don't care about spoilers! I just want to know if you can come up with a good story!

cwfgal

08-01-2005, 02:48 AM

I'm leery of doing that. What if the book were picked up? Heavens! Anyway, this was the only person who found the synopsis unbelievable.

Thing is, you don't know that for sure. This person may be the only one who said she found it unbelievable. It's worth considering.

The synopsis can only hurt you, in my opinion, especially if the work is a thriller. The purpose is to get the agent to read the book, but if the agent already knows what happens, having read the synopsis, how can the book be thrilling?

Consider this: it takes a very talented writer to keep a story thrilling even though the ending is known.

An agent is interested in your ability to captivate the reader, to develop a plausible story, and to satisfactorily resolve any issues/conflicts/plot lines. It takes a lot of time to read an entire ms and your synopsis gives an agent an idea of whether or not they want to invest that time in your ms.

Recently, a couple of agents passed on this book, but liked the logline for my WIP, and asked to see it when finished. So it sent them the MS and a one paragraph teaser, calling it a Short Synopsis. So far, so good.

A one paragraph "synopsis" is what you need for your query. I would strongly encourage you to write out a separate, more detailed synopsis and include it when appropriate. A "teaser" gives an agent no way to judge the overall work (the plot, the character development, the conflicts, the resolutions, etc.) other than by reading the whole ms. Given that the agent probably has dozens of other works he CAN judge more quickly by reading a synopsis, you may be dooming your ms to shelf status for a long, long time.

Beth

Julie Worth

08-01-2005, 05:36 AM

A one paragraph "synopsis" is what you need for your query. I would strongly encourage you to write out a separate, more detailed synopsis and include it when appropriate. A "teaser" gives an agent no way to judge the overall work (the plot, the character development, the conflicts, the resolutions, etc.) other than by reading the whole ms. Given that the agent probably has dozens of other works he CAN judge more quickly by reading a synopsis, you may be dooming your ms to shelf status for a long, long time.

I do have a 5 page synopsis (and a 1 page synopsis), but since they didn't ask for it, I didn't send it. I hear what you're saying, but the way I see it, an agent can reject a work quickly by reading a synopsis, but if they're going to represent it, they'll have to read the MS eventually, with or without the synopsis.

icerose

08-01-2005, 06:25 AM

cwfgal

08-01-2005, 09:23 AM

I do have a 5 page synopsis (and a 1 page synopsis), but since they didn't ask for it, I didn't send it. I hear what you're saying, but the way I see it, an agent can reject a work quickly by reading a synopsis, but if they're going to represent it, they'll have to read the MS eventually, with or without the synopsis.

Not necessarily. They may make the decision to NOT represent you based on the first page or two of the ms. If those first pages don't grab them, you're history. But if you also had a synopsis with the promise of a catchy plot twist or something else that might motivate them to read further, you might increase your chances of representation even if the first two pages don't persuade them.

Beth

Jamesaritchie

08-01-2005, 12:18 PM

I do have a 5 page synopsis (and a 1 page synopsis), but since they didn't ask for it, I didn't send it. I hear what you're saying, but the way I see it, an agent can reject a work quickly by reading a synopsis, but if they're going to represent it, they'll have to read the MS eventually, with or without the synopsis.

Beth is right. I'd say at least 70% of all manuscripts are rejected before page five is read. Many are rejected before page one is fully read. Just because they have the manuscript does not mean they have to read it all.

If nothing else, a synopsis tells an agent or editor what the novel is about, and whether or not it's the kind of story they like to handle.

It's true enough that an agent or editor can reject a novel quickly based on a synopsis, but it's also true that a novel can be, and usually is, rejected just as quickly as a synopsis.

Julie Worth

08-01-2005, 04:00 PM

cwfgal

08-01-2005, 05:24 PM

James D. Macdonald

08-01-2005, 05:39 PM

The reason you include the major plot points and the ending in the synopsis is so the agent or editor will know that you have major plot points and an ending.

Julie Worth

08-01-2005, 05:41 PM

A bestselling author can get away with a lot of things the rest of us can't.

Beth

<sighs> I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. This suggestion was for the unpublished. Best selling authors usually have agents, so aren't in the position of having to do this.

clotje

08-01-2005, 05:42 PM

I’ve heard all sorts of theories on this. One of the most interesting (from a best selling author) is when three chapters and a synopsis are requested, to send the chapters and a continuing synopsis. That is, a synopsis that continues with the story at chapter 4. Which forces the agent to at least skim the opening chapters. No matter how good your synopsis is (most aren’t), it’s the work that has to grab the agent’s interest. Getting it read is the first hurdle.

Very true. I'm entering my work into the Debut Dagger Award competition and the judge states that you should start the synopsis where the chapter ends, which is what I've done.

BTW Julie re. suspension of disbelief...your ending...did the alien do it with the laser gun in the conservatory? :ROFL:

Jamesaritchie

08-01-2005, 11:33 PM

I’ve heard all sorts of theories on this. One of the most interesting (from a best selling author) is when three chapters and a synopsis are requested, to send the chapters and a continuing synopsis. That is, a synopsis that continues with the story at chapter 4. Which forces the agent to at least skim the opening chapters. No matter how good your synopsis is (most aren’t), it’s the work that has to grab the agent’s interest. Getting it read is the first hurdle.

That's what my agent and editors call an outline, rather than a synopsis. In many circles, the standard submission package is a brief synopsis, three chapters, and then an outline of the rest of the novel. But, yes, getting the work read is the first hurdle. When an agent will accept three chapters and an outline, as opposed to just a query letter/synopsis, I think it's always best to send the chapters.

Show, don't tell again. Assuming the writing is good, it's always better to have an agent or editor read your work, rather than having them read something that simply tells them about the work.

Jamesaritchie

08-01-2005, 11:52 PM

A bestselling author can get away with a lot of things the rest of us can't.

Beth

Sending a synopsis, three chapters, plus an outline of the rest of the novel is better advice for a new writer than for a bestseling writer. It's a standard package. Such a package is nearly always put together after a novel has been written, and selling novelists seldom write a novel before it's already been sold and a contract is in hand.

maestrowork

08-01-2005, 11:55 PM

Read the submission guidelines. Most agents/publishers I've submitted to do not ask for outlines.

Jamesaritchie

08-02-2005, 12:29 AM

Read the submission guidelines. Most agents/publishers I've submitted to do not ask for outlines.

Submission guidelines should always be read, but are often incomplete, and sometimes simply inaccurate. Some agents and publishers assume writers know an outline should follow sample chapters. Many say "Chapters and synopsis" when they really mean "chapters and outline."

Some, even some with very detailed guidelines where query letters are concerned, expect writers to ask about chapters and outlines. Others, even though they will read chapters and outlines, don;t mention them in guideliens simply because it's lesss work to read a synopsis, and they don't want to be flooded by hundreds or thousands of chapters and outline packages.

Synospsis/chapters/outline is nothing new, and has been a "standard" package since long before I started writing.

The rule should really be, "Always read submission guidelines, but never assume that's all there is to the story." If you've already written the novel, then ask about chapters and outline. Having an agent or editor read as much as possible is always to the writer's advantage, and submission guidelines are often aimed at the new writer who is unlikely to become a client.

As Lawrence Block says, a synopsis is not a tool agents and editors use to find new writers, it's a tool agents and editors use to reject new writers without having to read their manuscripts.

Whenever possible, it's better to get a synopsis, three chapters, and an outline in front of an agent or editor. And it's very often possible, no matter what the submission guidelines say. Sometimes you just have to ask.

Bufty

08-02-2005, 12:54 AM

Sorry, James, I follow and respect 99% of your posts, but I think you are totally wrong in saying that it is better an Outline should accompany three sample chapters and a Synopsis. I have never read anywhere apart from in your posting that that is a 'standard package'.
As far as I am aware, for a finished novel for the unpublished, the normal sequence is a Query Letter that hopefully triggers a request for either the manuscript or perhaps three chapters, and a synopsis. I can't see any point in submitting - or asking for - an Outline with a finished manuscript, apart from seeking or providing a possible lazy excuse for getting out of reading the manuscript.
As an afterthought and purely in passing, I think in the 'Ask the Agent' forum an Agent said the last thing he wanted to read was an Outline - 'agonising to read' was the phrase, I think.

Jamesaritchie

08-02-2005, 01:42 AM

Sorry, James, I follow and respect 99% of your posts, but I think you are totally wrong in saying that it is better an outline should follow three sample chapters and a synopsis. I have never read anywhere apart from in your posting that that is a 'standard package'.
As far as I am aware, for a finished novel for the unpublished, the normal sequence is a Query Letter that hopefully triggers a request for either the manuscript or perhaps three chapters, and a synopsis. I can't see any point in submitting - or asking for - an outline with a finished manuscript, apart from seeking or providing a possible lazy excuse for getting out of reading the manuscript.

I can only tell you this is the way it worked with every agent I've had, and every agent I've worked with. It's also the way it worked with every publisher I've dealt with, and has woprked this way for the twenty-five years I've dealt with publishers.. Yes, the "normal" sequence is a query letter that hopefully generates a request to see more. But ask yourself this, just how often does this "normal" sequence work? And who really benefits from this "normal" way, the agent and editor, or the writer?

Lazy has nothing to do with it. If you've been on the wrong end of a slush pile, you know that at least 70% of everything that comes in is just plain bad. Another 20% isn't horrible, but it still stands no chance of making the cut. On and on. Nearly 100% of all requested manuscripts come from the top 4% of queries, and of requested manuscripts, only about 1-2% stand a chance of actually ebing represented.

You also know that no matter how good a synopsis is, no agent and no editor can tell how well you write fiction based on one. It simply isn't possible. You also know that many who can write very good fiction can't write a good query letter/synopsis, no matter what.

Agents and editors know this becaus ethey see it every day. So anything that cuts back on the number of partials and complete manuscripts is a very good thing from the viewpoint of an agent or editor. Not laziness, just experience.

And ask yourself this. Since chapter by chapter outlines obviously really do exist, when else would you use one? And I've seen numerous guidelines over the years that have the words synopsis/outline in them. Very often, this is exactly what they mean.

Yes, there are agents who don't want to read an outline. There are also editors who don't want to read an outline. So what? Because one agent and one editor doesn't want to in no way means there aren't many others who won't. And in all honesty, I wouldn't go near any agent for any reason if that agent wouldn't read a fairly brief outline attached to sample chapters. That's an agent I absolutely would not get along with.

Simply put, I know a lot more agents and editors who do read them than who don't. And, of course, just because it's there does not mean an agent or editor has to read it if they don't want to, but in my experience, the vast majority not only read them, they appreciate them.

And I know from experience that a chapter by chapter outline following three sample chapters can make the decision to ask for the full novel far easier.

But it isn't a matter of saying to do it or not do it. It does no harm to ask, and it has been a "standard" submission package for many years, at least with every agent and every publisher I've dealt with.

Sometimes the "normal" procedure works, but it is not there to benefit new writers, and the more you can get in front of most agents and editors, the better. I've seen far too many writers fail with the "normal" route, and far too many succed with this route, to doubt how effective it can sometimes be.

Trust me, that bestselling writer did not suggest a "continuing sysnopsis" because she needs one.

Different agents and different editors will certainly hhave individual preferences, but this in no way invalidates something that has been done for a lot of years, and has worked well for many writers, agents, and editors.

Bufty

08-02-2005, 02:08 AM

Thanks, James, I take your point and indeed I may try it. Goodness knows the Synopsis is hard enough - maybe an Outline will be a tad easier and at least I presume I can slip in 'electrifying' extracts on the way. If it works, I'll let you know. And I take back my 'totally wrong'; that was the little frustrated part of me speaking. ;)

mistri

08-02-2005, 02:29 AM

BTW, when I was in a position to read synopses, I didn't like the 'continuing ones' that started from chapter four. I preferred to have the whole lot summarised together. Partly because I liked knowing what kind of story I was about to read - I usually skimmed the synopsis before delving into a 3-chapter partial MS. Some of my colleagues preferred to read the MS first, though.

cwfgal

08-02-2005, 03:57 AM

I agree it's to the author's benefit to get sample chapters in front of an agent whenever possible (assuming, of course, those chapters are well-written and captivating). But I don't agree on a "continuing' synopsis unless that's what someone specifically requests. Many agents are overworked and swamped with submissions. Many will read the query and synopsis first before sampling the chapters, simply because it is the quickest and easiest way to get a feel for the overall work and the capabilities of the writer. If the synopsis starts off where the chapters left off, it might seem incomplete or confusing and cause the agent to reject the project out of hand. I think authors who are already published and negotiating subsequent works with a publisher may do sample chapters and a "continuing " synopsis but I think it would be a mistake for an unpublished writer to do it. Just my opinion based on my experiences and worth what you paid for it.

As for the synopsis vs outline thing, I think those terms are often used interchangably for fiction and it creates some confusion. I've secured two agents over the course of my career and I'm working on finding a third. I've received requests for an entire ms from somewhere in the neighborhood of 25 agents and not one of them has ever asked for an outline. That's not to say there aren't those who do, I've just never run across one, not for fiction, anyway.

Beth

shan

08-02-2005, 09:34 PM

[QUOTE=Jamesaritchie]I don't know. I think it's the writer's job to write the synopsis in a way that makes it sound believable. The synopsis, especially for new writers, is often even more important than the novel because unless it's done right, no one is is ever going to read the novel.

But the job of a synopsis is to describe the novel in such a way that an agent or editor will say, "Yes, this sounds like a good novel." And part of a good novel is believability, even if the events within are impossible. It may be you're playing up, overemphasizing, the wrong parts of the novel.

i'm a newbie and in the process of preparing my first synopsis. it's women's fiction with a bit of a mystery tied into it. i am a little concerned about how much information i should put into it - i don't want to make the synopsis into a book itself!

Bufty

08-02-2005, 09:37 PM