Guns at home

Good to have, but only if you keep it loaded and know how to use it to defend yourself correctly.

We have a shotgun at home. I don't imagine I'll ever need it for protection, but I enjoy target shooting. It is loaded and accessible. My children know where it is and what it is and about how strongly people feel concerning the issue of guns in the home. I am not worried about them doing anything screwheaded just now.

I reevaluate my opinion on this regularly and, thus far, haven't felt the need to change my arrangement.

I've heard that 911 call before and it's awful. She did the only thing she could.

I listened to that call again. She's one cool customer.

"I don't want to kill this man, but I'll kill him graveyard dead, ma'am."

We own a gun, mostly for sentimental reasons (it was my father's, and he handcrafted the grips on it to fit his very large hands). We have ammunition for it, but we don't keep it loaded.

I don't believe I could shoot someone, not because of any moral issue, but because a gun is not my favored weapon. I understand the theory of loading/aiming/firing a gun, but I've never done it enough to feel comfortable with it.

HOWEVER, we also have an extensive collection of swords, daggers, bats, axes, and other barbaric means to cause pain. There is one by every door of the house, one on each side of our bed, and a few hidden in rooms where you would never think to look.

I know how to use each and every one of them, making sure to focus on close quarters (which would count as the hallway of my home). I guarantee you that any person who tries to get between me and my child is going to have a very bad day.

It depends, too, on what the intruder into one's home is likely to want. So this means you need to consider where you live, what you do for a living, whether you make enemies or a particularly good target or victim, etc.

My life, I don't anger anybody enough to wish me harm. Robbers would be handed what they wanted without argument. My children are grown and gone, thankfully safe. Crimes here are nearly all property crimes, with the occasional rape. Nearly all thefts in my town involve irresponsibility (open windows, unlocked doors, valuables in plain sight in a car), and we've always been real good about locks.

I'd rather lose valuables and heirlooms or be raped than kill a man. That's just me. I could not live with myself having deliberately killed someone who was not trying to kill me.

We don't have guns in the house and probably never will. Average police response time here is under 10 minutes, and we happen to be two blocks from the police station, so ours might be less.

Maryn, lucky to feel so safe

We have guns in the house, but they are double-locked and not accessible to the kids, or me either in an emergency situation. I have various baseball bats and the like stashed around the house in specific locations. I live over thirty miles from the nearest cop shop. I'd do whatever I had to do to keep my kids safe, including handing over all the valuables and/or submitting to rape. But if I thought they were still in harm's way - it would be an all out effort to bash someone's brain in. With no regrets.

I have guns, and I wouldn't hesitate to use it if someone broke into my house. Of course, I would wait until they were IN my house. I can't help but wonder if those women who had a gun but had the gun taken from them and used against them if they hesitated to pull the trigger, which allowed the assailant to get too close.

The OP reminds me a gun-safety class I took in the 80s in Oklahoma City. The class included home security, safe gun handling, choosing the right weapon for protection, and firing many pistols.

The instructor, who worked extensively with the police, said the average burglar was a white teenage, then: Could you pull the trigger if faced with a white teenager? A remember an elderly lady put her hand to her mouth, "Oh, I don't know ...." I thought a teenager who just broke into my house can kill me as dead as a middle-age person, you better believe I'll pull the trigger. The instructor also said in his experience and with talking with the police, the most dangerous burglar is the one who breaks in knowing you're home. They don't care.

One thing I learned from this class, if there's anyone who's interested in guns or especially if they're afraid of guns to take a gun safety class. One young lady in the class was terrified of guns. Her hubby talked her into attending. By the end of the month's class, she was Annie Oakley. Another was a little old lady who chased a burglar out of her house and fired the gun down the street at the fleeing burglar! Her husband made her take this class. This lady brought the loaded gun into class waving it around, not sure if the damned thing was loaded. I was ready to dive under the table while the cucumber-cool instructor slipped his hand over the gun and took it away from her. Sheesh. (Makes me think of the OP's remark about some people shouldn't have guns. Anyway, great class and I strongly recommend it.

I don't have kids, but if I did they would know how to shoot and handle guns the right way, and be fully aware of their dangers.

Yeah, there was some discussion about home protection when we bought our shotgun. I'll just say at the outset that I'm a terrible shot with a pistol. Really, it's humiliating. So target practice with a handgun is simply an exercise in being a good sport, but I can still blow things up with a 12 gauge. Makes the trip to the range worth it.

The guy who was selling us the shotgun tried to convince me that I wouldn't be able to stalk around corners effectively with a shotgun. I resisted the urge to tell him he'd watched too many movies and just said, "Well, I'm more than happy to make spaghetti sauce of anyone who intends to hurt me, but seriously, they're going to have to come all the way upstairs for it. I'm hardly going to go looking for him."

heyjude said:

Not just for experts--I'd like anyone's opinion who'd care to chime in.

So for most of my life I've been of the opinion that your average civilian shouldn't have a gun at home. I've heard that a woman in particular is more likely to have the gun taken away and turned against her in a home invasion.

Now I'm writing something that deals partly with this issue, so this story caught my eye and I wonder if I haven't been hideously naive. (For the click-averse, a woman shot and killed a man breaking into her house. It took the police 25 minutes to reach her after she dialed 911.)

What are your thoughts on guns at home? What if you have kids at home? What if you don't know a darn thing about guns and are afraid to find out? I've been writing about this from only one angle, so any input is appreciated!

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If a person is looking to own a gun the first thing they should learn is how to handle it. Not just safety and safe shooting, but also the damage it can do. Guns are not to be taken lightly and they are a huge responsibility.

I have three kids. I grew up with guns. I had 6 other siblings. Especially when there are children you should never have a loaded weapon unless it's locked away in the safe, and even then an accidental firing can get someone hurt.

Always assume a weapon is loaded unless you've taken out the clip and personally checked the chamber. (By checking the chamber I DO NOT mean peering down the end of the barrel, I mean opening it up.) You never ever chance it.

If you are going to point a gun at someone you'd better be prepared to pull the trigger. I think that's why statistically a woman is more likely to have a weapon taken from her and killed with it. She was unwilling to point the trigger. When you're dealing with a gun forget about bluffing because they might just decide to call you on it.

Never fire warning shots. Those bullets go somewhere, whether it's in someone, the wall, the ceiling, the sky, they are going to come back down and could hurt/kill someone.

If you have kids in the home you need to aquaint them with just what that gun can do as early and often as possible. First the noise will be the first frightener. Then when they are old enough a hole in a tin can gives them a good idea or a shattered glass. They'll get that far better than dozens upon dozens of lectures. Also take them out shooting, making sure to observe proper safety and talk about it over and over every time you go. The chances of a gun accident are reduced significantly if you take these steps. The only shooting accidents I have ever heard of within my circle are 1. Not checking to see if the gun was loaded and doing something stupid with it. 2. Making the gun forbidden to the children so it becomes something exciting/mysterious/adventurous. The saying "curiosty killed the cat" is especially true with children and guns. Remove that curiosty, not by scare lectures but hands on teachings.

If you are going to keep a weapon for self defense you need to have the weapon and ammo handy AND be trained to use it. A tool only does so much in unskilled hands. My grandmother-in-law keeps the clip and the unloaded gun under her pillow at night because she's had to face a robber once before without it. Never again for her.

I've had to use a gun to defend myself and an unborn baby. It isn't a desirable position to be in. But with training and familiarity with the weapon I was able to do it.

Final point. Keep your weapon clean and well oiled. Have it inspected often for bad springs, shoot it at least every six months to ensure it's in proper shooting order.

My dad wasn't into guns. He taught martial arts, it just wasn't his thing. But, my uncle was a gun freak. His house was filled with guns, for hunting, collecting, protection, etc. He always had TWO loaded guns in his car. The main gun and one for "back up." He was a retired LA police officer, so he knew his firearms.

My uncle thought it was insane that my dad didn't own a gun, and insisted he take one as a gift, so my dad took a .22 and a box of shells, and promptly hid the gun somewhere in the house.

I knew the gun was hidden somewhere (I was 10) and when my parents were out one day, I searched the place until I found it. It was in a locked box, but I found the key. I loaded the gun, played with the gun, took the rounds to the garage, put them in a vice and pried the bullets off with a set of pliers, collected the gunpowder and lit it in the back yard. I did everything but fire the thing...

I don't have a gun at home, but I did have a gun stuck in my face once. I was the mgr of restaurant, and just before closing, a man came in, asked for change for a dollar and when I opened the register, he pulled out a little 38 special and stuck it about an inch from my nose, and said gimme all the money in the register.
I was amazed at how calm I was. This guys hand was shaking so badly, that I thought he might pull the trigger out of sheer nervousness, so, I reached up and using my finger, pushed to barrell away so that it wasn't in my face.
I gave him the cash.
then i toild him to leave. He started to, and then he came back and stuck the gun in my face again. I gave him more cash. (I had just pulled the register, and most of the money was actually on me. I didn't see any reason to give it up though.
The owner of this restaurant always kept a loaded 9mm semi in the drawer behind the counter, and I knew this, so, I decided that it was time for me to show him that my gun was bigger than his.
meanwhile, he is demanding more money. So, I reached for the drawer, opened it, and the gun was gone. In it's place was a leather bank bag with 6 or 8 rolls of rolled pennies, nickels etc....so I pulled that out, handed it to him and told him to leave,
He said no, he said he wanted me to open the floor safe. The floor safe in this restraunt was messed up, and took forever to open. He comes around the counter, sticks the gun in my face and says open it.
I tell him no, and I again reach up and push the barrel of the gun away from my face.
then he says the words that sent a chill up my spine.
he says, let's go to the back....we start walking to the back room, there is only me and one employee in this place and he hasn't come out from the back so he doesn't know what's going on.

He comes out as me and the robber are walking back there, and the robber tells us, I want you both to lay face down on the floor. That was what sent chills up my spine.

The employee lays down, and I turn to the robber and say, No, it's time for you to leave. And i took his arm, and start walking him to the door. I get to the door, but don't touch the knob...i'm hoping he will get his fingerprints on it...make it easier for the cops.
He does, he runs out the door, I call the cops, they were there within 30 seconds. seriously. It may have been 20 seconds. I point in the direction he took off running and they go after him, they never caught him, and one of the other cops touched that doorknob and ruined the robbers fingerprints.

to this day I am amazed at how fast it went down.

Heyjude! We have an arsenal. We have two shotguns and two handguns. We also have kids, so the guns are locked up. The shotguns would be harder to get to, but they are in the retreat room, where we go to hide and call 911. We have a lock on that door, which would at least give us time to get the shotgun out. I also have my handgun in a gun safe in the kitchen, very easily accessible, locked, cocked and loaded. A shotgun is the best home defense weapon, short barrel, pistol grip, twelve gauge. I like a pump, because they're nothing like that noise to tell a home invader you're there. The gun expert (30 year veteran of the Boston PD) we had at the Crime Bake conference this year said he prefers a semi-auto shotgun, because he doesn't want to scare them, he wants to shoot them.

When the kids were little, we did the Eddie Eagle thing with them. They adored the video and sang along. We still sing the song, and they still know to follow the rules. "If you see a gun, stop, don't touch, leave the area, tell an adult!" The kids know to treat every gun as if it's loaded, never point a gun at a person, never point a gun at something you don't intend to shoot. They are fully trained on air pistols and bb guns, both handguns and rifles. (All three of them competed in Tetrathlon, which is shooting, riding, swimming and running.) They have not yet used real guns, but they're ready, it's just a matter of us getting around to doing it. We don't have enough land here for anything other than the air gun range.

I highly recommend taking a course. As a matter of fact, I recommend to all my crime and mystery writer friends that they take a course, because if you're going to write about something, you have to at least know the basics. I've taken several courses, including defensive shotgun at Smith and Wesson academy and an NRA defensive handgun course. I don't get enough practice, that's one regret, but I know I could handle either the pistol or the shotgun in an emergency.

We don't live in the middle of nowhere, but you don't have to. A couple of towns away from us, the folks were talking about cutting the police force to one part-time officer. The state police told them that response time in the middle of the night would be a minimum of forty-five minutes. You can get a lot dead in forty-five minutes.

We live in New Hampshire partly because of the gun laws. We did live in Massachusetts for a while, but western Mass, where it was easy to get a permit. Some towns in Massachusetts will not issue any permits at all. In New Hampshire we can have all the guns we want at home, but need a permit to carry concealed. However, it's a shall-issue state, which means as long as you're not a felon you can get a carry permit.

I'm rambling. Feel free to email me for more. I love to talk guns.

Your naive opinion of guns is common, due to being fostered in full force by anti-gun "factoids" (a factoid is bogus data dressed as a fact). Just one of the bogus "realities" you heard was published by national columnist Ann Landers in the ’90s: "Household guns are 46 times more liable to kill family members than prevent crime."

When pressed for sources, Ann pointed to a superficial "research" paper, "Accidental Firearm Fatalities in a Metropolitan County" by Rushforth, et al, in American Journal of Epidemiology (1975).

Rushforth and crew compared 148 accidental deaths involving firearms, including several misrepresented suicides, to 23 intruders shot and killed by homeowners over a 16-year period in Cleveland, Ohio. The thesis: "A gun in the home is six times more likely to kill a family member than to stop a criminal."

The actual figure was 6.4 times as likely. What did Ann’s publicist have to say about her transposing digits and losing the decimal point? Statistical anomaly.

But that wasn’t the only anomaly. The "study" itself made the absurd postulation that criminals weren’t stopped unless killed, even when Cleveland’s law enforcement records confirmed dozens of housebreakers stopped by non-fatal gun shot wounds. More than a hundred others were thwarted by shots fired although no intruders were hit. Hundreds of other homeowners reported crooks turned tail after guns were merely displayed.

I’ll stop here, but Rushforth’s "research" was found to be flawed in several other ways.

During the 16 years of the Rushforth study, NRA’s "Armed Citizen" column reprinted 1,920 nationwide newspaper accounts where firearms successfully defended homes and business.

Peter Rossi and James Wright’s U.S. Department of Justice report, "Armed and Dangerous: A survey of Felons and Their Firearms" (1986), established that 40 percent of the lawbreakers conceded foregoing specific criminal acts out of fear indended victims were armed, and 34 percent abandoned crimes-in-progress when victims produced guns or fired shots.

University of Chicago sociology professors John Lott and David Mustard measured that murders fell 8.5 percent, rapes reduced 5 percent, and aggravate assaults dropped 7 percent in the first year pilot Illinois counties allowed right-to-carry permits and armed homeowners (1997).

Of course guns in the home need to be secured from children and other unauthorized family members. Quick-open gun safes are only one answer. Armed homeowners should seek training. My gun association offers free Eddy Eagle courses for children and home firearm safety courses for adults.

I grew up in a house full of guns (My stepfather sold rifles for awhile and he is an ex-Navy guy). (Actually my whole family are hunters, they kept them on a rack in their trucks too!)

Guns scare the crap out of me. My stepfather offered to buy me a handgun when I moved out on my own, but I passed. My sister used to sit on her couch with a loaded shotgun when her husband was away for the night. (She knows how to use them though, she used to go target practicing with my stepfather all the time)

That said, we have a machete under the bed. It was from when we lived in a fairly high crime area in PA. Now we live in the sticks of Maine. People still leave their doors unlocked around here. But it's there, just in case. I have kids. There is no way in hell I would let anyone harm them if they broke into my house. I would have no hesitation at all killing someone to defend them.

Guns in home

Ditto, ditto, ditto everything icerose said. We have several guns in the home. My husband has been a hunter his whole life, a hunting family. My son started hunting when he was eligiable at 14 (now 16.) My daughter now fourteen, has shot them as well. As do I. Riffle, shot gun. When we target shoot we have very strick rules. Only one person up in line at the target at a time everyone else stay well behind them, anounce when the safty is off before you shoot, things like that. Know your target and beyond etc. We all have taken hunter safty. We live in a rural area, so target practice is outside.

I took the pistol permit class as well as my husband. Since he has a permit, I need to get mine just in case anything ever happened to him, otherwise I would have to turn them all in.

We never allowed our children to have toy guns as children. We taught them right from the get go, they are not toys. They were taught gun safty since they were young just to constantly reinforce the point. The ammo is locked seperate from the guns, then our bedroom door gets locked as well. (Many have trigger locks too)They know they are a serious thing to handle, but all of this learning for them has taken the no-no don't even look at it mystery away from it all.

Both my kids have even shot a couple of the light weight pistols. This is another important thing. Don't get more gun then you can handle. The weight and feel has to be right so you can hold it comfortably with a pistol. With a shot gun or rifle make sure it's not barrel heavy that you can't hold it up straight. Also the recoil or kick can not be more then you can handle. If its too much gun for you, you will not have proper control over it.

I agree that it is the lack of education (including target practice) that causes the most damage, be it accidents, stupidity or curiosity. (Well, unless your a criminal, then you know what it can do and don't care.)

My sister's first husband had a ton of guns because his family hunted. Their response to having guns in the house with kids was to take the kids down to the shooting range and teach them about guns. By the time those kids were 7, they knew how to dismantle and clean a gun, how to load it, the whole shebang. When their dad judged them able to handle it, he taught them both how to shoot.

To enforce the difference between real guns and play, the family made sure the kids never had toy guns that looked like real guns.

So when the kids' friends asked why Mikey didn't have a gun or want to play guns with them, his reply was "I shoot a real gun. You don't pick up a gun unless you want to kill something, so you only do that at the firing range or out hunting. That's not something you play with."

Always thought that was a good way of handling the matter.

heyjude said:

I've heard that a woman in particular is more likely to have the gun taken away and turned against her in a home invasion.

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This sort of thing happens to people who are afraid to pull the trigger. Or who pull out a gun simply to threaten with no will to use it if necessary. Too many people pull a gun before it becomes necessary.

What are your thoughts on guns at home?

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A very good thing if you are a responsible person.

What if you have kids at home?

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Keep the guns out of reach and any excess guns locked up. Teach the kids from an early age to not touch and to be responsible with guns.

What if you don't know a darn thing about guns and are afraid to find out?

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Why are people afraid of guns, specifically afraid to own a gun, but are not afraid to own and operate a car, which, statistically, is much more dangerous. Go take a gun class if you want to learn about guns.

It really blows my mind to read women say they would rather be raped than shoot someone. Thank God there are still free people in the world who would rather fight than submit to tyranny and slavery. In many cases, rapist also murder their victims.

Not shooting a robber, I can understand. But if they are armed they are in effect threatening to kill me. I would take that threat seriously and try to act in the best manner.

Here are some interesting stories where guns solved the problem without violence (you don't hear these on the news):

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=472570

I grew up with a loaded rifle on the top shelf of the bookcase beside the entry door - I was told not to touch it and didn't. I received a B-B gun as a present when I was 8 and learned how to use it. I grew up and married a gun enthusiast and learned how to be proficient in handling all types. Our daughter grew up with loaded, accessible (if you knew where they were) guns in the house. We live in the country - if someone knocks on the door late at night, we answer the door with a revolver in hand (but not visible). Could I shoot someone - definitely yes if I felt my or any of my family's lives were being threatened (and that includes the pets). Puma

CVA

Heyjude . . .

What a surprise to learn you're not a gun gal. All this time I thought the CVA you belong to was Connecticut Valley Arms, importer of muzzleloading firearms.

http://www.cva.com/

Chase, just joshin'

I have guns in the house, but no kids. When I go out or the nieces and nephews come over, the guns go into the safe. Otherwise, they're accessible. I've been a cop for most of my adult life, so I'm comfortable using them.

As for my thoughts on using them: If you're thinking of breaking into my house, wash down a handful of sleeping pills with a glass of vodka instead. It'll hurt less, and your family will be able to have an open-casket funeral.

heyjude said:

Thank you so much, everyone, for your responses. I can see that my "Wouldn't it be nice if only big strong law enforcement officers carried weapons?" lollipops-and-rainbows approach to life has been, indeed, a bit naive.

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I don't think it's fair to dismissive it as naive. The thing is, situationally, there are all sort of gun scenarios that could play out benificially or disastrously. We never really know, do we?

It's complicated.

I'm very comfortable around guns and grew up target shooting. I don't have kids, so I don't think having a gun at home is a big deal. I doubt anyone could get the gun away from me without being shot, and if it's during a struggle I'm probably toast anyway.

As far as kids and guns, I just don't know. My father taught us all very well, yet I still remember a time where my sister was going to get the rifle because she was angry at a boy in our neighborhood shooting her with a BB gun.

I think very locked up is the only way I'd go with kids.

I have to agree with the people who say to take a gun safety course. I have been using guns most of my adult life, both in my military and civilian lives. If you know how to handle them, and respect them, there's no problem.

I currently don't have any guns in my house, mostly because I figure if my wife gets pissed at me, at least she can't shoot me.

But seriously. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion regarding guns and their use. I for one am a proponent of stronger gun laws, and enforcing a mandatory 21 day waiting period for anyone purchasing a handgun of semi-automatic rifle. The last gun I purchased, several years ago, was a Glock 22. I walked into the gun shop, picked it out, and went to pay for it. I expected the salesman to tell me I could come back and pick it up in three weeks, after a background check. But no, he hands me the gun and tells me to have a nice day. On top of that, I purchased 3 boxes of ammo and extra clips. For all he knew, I could have been a mass murderer! (I'm not of course, but he didn't know that.) Well, he did run my drivers license. (Which could have been a fake.)