british education early 20th century

angeliz2k · Dec 3, 2009

I'm thinking of setting my next WIP in WWI England. [Yes, I do tend to leap all over history--I like it all, 'kay?] My character is probably going to be a teen girl (13 to 16, haven't decided yet). I know that in 1870, primary education was mandated by the government.

But at the beginning of the century, what would school have been like? Would most children have been in school until 16? In rural areas, would it be small one-room schoolhouses?

I'm just trying to get a sense of it. If anyone has any info--or if you have any good ideas for sources--I would be eternally grateful in the form of rep points (not that I'm bribing y'all for info).

Albannach · Dec 3, 2009

Let me point out that that British and English are not synonymous. Thanks.

Edit: I can't help because I know nothing about the English educational system.

stephenf · Dec 3, 2009

A lot depends on the girls class.Poor children left school at fifteen .In the nineteen twenty's school were not so different from the schools of today.Except the teachers were a lot stricter and corporal punishment was the norm. Some school were segregated but not all.The curriculum was different , more basic and Girls would be taught cooking and home economics and the boys woodwork and metal work.Some infant school would have just one teacher, if the local population was small but the older children would be expected to travel.If the Girl was rich, things would be different .Most of the more expensive schools still exist and are easy to research.

Shakesbear · Dec 3, 2009

Very briefly - ROSLA happened in 1966ish - Raising of the School Leaving Age from 14 to 16.

Rural is a very elastic term - I live in a rural area and there are some one room schools and some that are much bigger - depends on the size of town/village and the social and economic standing of the area.

Girls would have been taught to sew and cook. Boys would have been taught wood and metal work - but it all depends on so many variables.

Sirius · Dec 3, 2009

Seconding Albannach's observation; I will go further and say that for children from poorer families both the quality and the availability of the education available in Scotland far surpassed that available south of the Border; the career of John Buchan (who started life the son of a Church of Scotland minister of very modest means and who ended up Governor-General of Canada) is an illustration.

Compulsory education was, I believe, only until 14 and it was possible to pass an exam to leave early, at 12; there were also "half-time" arrangements to allow children to spend the morning at school and the afternoon working part time. Schools attended by the working classes tended to be called "elementary" schools - sometimes "Board" schools.

If you want a sense for what school was like in rural areas about a decade and a half earlier, Flora Thompson's Lark Rise to Candleford is a semi-autobiographical depiction of it. Vera Brittain's Testament of Youth and Testament of Friendship describe, respectively, the schooling opportunities available for her and her friend Winifred Holtby in the years immediately before and just at the outset of WWI (Holtby's school was bombed during the Zeppelin raids on Hull and Scarborough, and they were evacuated to Scotland). They were daughters from well-off middle-class families and their schools were private boarding schools; what is notable particularly in Brittain's case is the low expectations from scholars.

Very few girls would be in school at 16; secondary school provision for girls even from middle class families lagged well behind that for boys.

waylander · Dec 3, 2009

By 14, girls from poor rural families would be expected to be earning a living - going into service was a major route for them, or doing housework/farmwork and expecting to be married within 3 or 4 years.

angeliz2k · Dec 3, 2009

Sirius said:
Seconding Albannach's observation; I will go further and say that for children from poorer families both the quality and the availability of the education available in Scotland far surpassed that available south of the Border; the career of John Buchan (who started life the son of a Church of Scotland minister of very modest means and who ended up Governor-General of Canada) is an illustration.

Compulsory education was, I believe, only until 14 and it was possible to pass an exam to leave early, at 12; there were also "half-time" arrangements to allow children to spend the morning at school and the afternoon working part time. Schools attended by the working classes tended to be called "elementary" schools - sometimes "Board" schools.

If you want a sense for what school was like in rural areas about a decade and a half earlier, Flora Thompson's Lark Rise to Candleford is a semi-autobiographical depiction of it. Vera Brittain's Testament of Youth and Testament of Friendship describe, respectively, the schooling opportunities available for her and her friend Winifred Holtby in the years immediately before and just at the outset of WWI (Holtby's school was bombed during the Zeppelin raids on Hull and Scarborough, and they were evacuated to Scotland). They were daughters from well-off middle-class families and their schools were private boarding schools; what is notable particularly in Brittain's case is the low expectations from scholars.

Very few girls would be in school at 16; secondary school provision for girls even from middle class families lagged well behind that for boys.

Those autobios sound interesting and relevant. I'll look into those.

I figured the school-leaving age would be about 14-16, about the age of my possible character. I guess it isn't a big surprise that girls were taught lots of needlework and such. All very interesting and confirms a lot of what I thought. Offers me some fertile ground for thought.

Albannach said:
Let me point out that that British and English are not synonymous. Thanks.

Yes, of course.

I know that! And the "United Kingdom" is something different again, and so is "Great Britain". I don't think I'd be allowed to live here for if I didn't know that much, haha!

pdr · Dec 3, 2009

Early 20thC?

First set your scene. Schooling varied wildly. Place your character in her class and setting and then we can help you more.

Labourers' children in rural areas often went to a school controlled and ordered by the local gentry. The emphasis was on teaching the children to be good servants. Plain sewing and not embroidery. It wasn't until the Great War that that began to change.

In a town or city the school might well be controlled by factory owners or the church. Again the idea was to stop dangerous ideas and attitudes developing in the working class.

Quaker schools were quite different, took in all classes and really educated the students, but they were few and in specific areas.

Middle and upper class girls still had a lousy education unless their parents were liberal minded or a Miss Buss and Miss Beale influenced school was their local choice. Dame schools were still popular with the middle class.

Captain Scarf · Dec 3, 2009

If you really want to understand British education for ordinary children in the late 19th and early 20th century then I strongly advise that you visit Britain and go to one of our heritage museums such as Beamish near Durham http://www.beamish.org.uk/Home.aspx or Blists Hill http://www.ironbridge.org.uk/our_attractions/blists_hill_victorian_town/ These places have schoolhouses from the period and would be more than happy to give you a flavour of the experience.

angeliz2k · Dec 4, 2009

Captain Scarf said:
If you really want to understand British education for ordinary children in the late 19th and early 20th century then I strongly advise that you visit Britain and go to one of our heritage museums such as Beamish near Durham http://www.beamish.org.uk/Home.aspx or Blists Hill http://www.ironbridge.org.uk/our_attractions/blists_hill_victorian_town/ These places have schoolhouses from the period and would be more than happy to give you a flavour of the experience.

Those look fantastic! They are officially on my list of places to visit, whether or not I choose to pursue this particular idea. I'm studying in the UK, so I'll be here at least a year. I have such a long list of places to go see!

Priene · Dec 4, 2009

Here are the schools in my old village, and a bit more here. The British school was big enough to become a church hall, though it was only one room. The building that held the National school was tiny.

pdr · Dec 5, 2009

As you can see...

there may have been an 1880 Education Act but the education varied widely from area to area depending on so much, attitude of the locals, money available, interference from those with power. And it still required some money, labourers would have found it really hard to pay anything.

waylander · Dec 5, 2009

It also depended on the parents attitude. If a mother decided that she needed her 12 y.o. daughter to stay home and help with the housework, then she didn't go to school and no-one would check up on her.

Albannach · Dec 6, 2009

angeliz2k said:
Yes, of course. I know that! And the "United Kingdom" is something different again, and so is "Great Britain". I don't think I'd be allowed to live here for if I didn't know that much, haha!

You didn't seem to know that Scotland has its own educational system separate from the English which is why I mentioned it.

There is no such thing as a British educational system. In that period, the Scottish one would have been run by the kirk and was an excellent educational system indeed.

angeliz2k · Dec 7, 2009

Albannach said:
You didn't seem to know that Scotland has its own educational system separate from the English which is why I mentioned it.

There is no such thing as a British educational system. In that period, the Scottish one would have been run by the kirk and was an excellent educational system indeed.

I actually knew that, too.

I was not asking about "a" British educational system, but about "British education". Education in England falls under that category (as does Scottish education, but I was specifically asking about English education). I don't know why I'm arguing over semantics here. I had no particular reason for putting British in the title and English in the post, but what I wrote was perfectly correct.

I understand that you commented because you thought I wasn't aware; no hard feelings here.

pdr · Dec 7, 2009

But...

as you are in the UK, do remember that people are touchy about being called English when they are Irish, Scottish or Welsh. This means not only saying British if you are not sure but also learning something about the ins and outs of local versus British!

angeliz2k · Dec 8, 2009

pdr said:
as you are in the UK, do remember that people are touchy about being called English when they are Irish, Scottish or Welsh. This means not only saying British if you are not sure but also learning something about the ins and outs of local versus British!

Yes. I know.

I would never call a Scottish person English or an English person Scottish (for instance). I'm not confused. I wasn't confused. I will not, in the future, be confused. I DID use British to refer to something English--which is perfectly legitimate, as England is part of Brtain.

Again: I know.

Sorry to sound huffy. But I've been told twice now about something I already know, because I wrote something that was actually correct. I don't want to be rude, but I was irritated by that.

Albannach · Dec 12, 2009

England is not ALL of Britain. I'm sorry to sound huffy but it basically treats the rest of the British Isles as though they either don't exist or don't matter.

Many people do not realize that Scotland has its own educational and its own justice system, both separate from and different from the English ones. I always assume such statements as asking about the "British educational system" are ignorance and open to clarification rather than deliberate offense.

angeliz2k · Dec 13, 2009

Albannach said:
England is not ALL of Britain. I'm sorry to sound huffy but it basically treats the rest of the British Isles as though they either don't exist or don't matter.

Many people do not realize that Scotland has its own educational and its own justice system, both separate from and different from the English ones. I always assume such statements as asking about the "British educational system" are ignorance and open to clarification rather than deliberate offense.

I'm sorry if you took offense. You are clearly patriotic, and I sympathize; trust me, Americans get a lot of flack. Still, try not to go overboard.

I said nothing anywhere about "the" British educational system, as I pointed out before. And, as I said repeatedly, I know that England does not equal Britain or vice versa. There was no ignorance on my part. There was certainly no intention to offend anyone.

By the way, as I also pointed out repeatedly I no where said anything that should cause offense. English education is part of British education. I nowhere implied it was the entirety of it.

And I have now repeated myself yet again. It is the last time I'll do so.

british education early 20th century

angeliz2k

never mind the shorty

Albannach

AW Addict

stephenf

Shakesbear

knows a hawk from a handsaw

Sirius

waylander

Who's going for a beer?

angeliz2k

never mind the shorty

pdr

Captain Scarf

Smart-casual Ninja

angeliz2k

never mind the shorty

Priene

Out to lunch

pdr

waylander

Who's going for a beer?

Albannach

AW Addict

angeliz2k

never mind the shorty

pdr

angeliz2k

never mind the shorty

Albannach

AW Addict

angeliz2k

never mind the shorty