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Glamour177

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Hello all!

I wrote a chick lit novel (my first completed novel) almost a year ago. I did send queries out to agents and didn't get beyond the partial request stage. I have decided that this book is not going to be published (Sad! I know :cry:), so instead of locking it away in a closet, I am going to post it on my blog.

I posted my query letter today, and will start posting my book in a couple of weeks. So I would love input (constructive input of course!) if anyone is interested. Or if you just want to read a gushy lovey novel :LilLove:, then feel free to stop by!

If you decide to read it, I suggest reading this post first and then this post second before reading the query and any subsequent posts. It'll give you a little more background about my book.
 

job

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May I offer unsolicited advice ...?

Put the manuscript away in a trunk. For two years.

When you haul it out in late 2011, you may say -- "This can be fixed.'

You may say -- "What was I thinking!" in which case you will be very glad your manuscript is not out there on the net forever.

You may say -- "Now that I've sold the second and third manuscripts, they're asking to see the first one. Thank God I didn't throw it away by putting it on the net."
 

Glamour177

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Bring on the advice - I am certainly soliciting for it! :)

Does the advice still stand with these statistics:

85 queries sent
6 requested partials
0 requested past the first partial

I have noticed that some people have gotten a "fix these problems and then send it to me again for another look". No one has given me that kind of feedback, which is why I am thinking there isn't anything I can do to fix my book.

Always just a flat out "thanks but no thanks."
 

Lainey Bancroft

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I agree with job. More unsolicited advice...but, hey, you did say you were soliciting...:scared:

You got 6...SIX requests! Compare that to some writers who have sent out 200 queries and received NO requests.

You also said this was a 1st novel. Have you worked with a critique partner or group? If not, perhaps some of those requested partials would have become requested fulls with a bit of spit shine/polish????

Don't get me wrong, I honestly think sometimes the best thing a newish author can do is 'let the first one go' so they can go on to write a newer, better novel. But 'letting it go' doesn't necessarily translate to 'giving it away.' Maybe the next book will help you learn things about book #1.. Or maybe an e/small press contract will help you learn things about editing so book #2 is that much cleaner than book #1.
 

job

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No one has given me that kind of feedback.

This is a hard market. And you aren't going to give up. Someday this will be 'that old manuscript I had trouble selling.'

This is why trunks were created.

Look, if you can't sell the ms to a print publisher and you're thinking of posting it on your blog . . . have you tried e-pub?
 

AuburnAssassin

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While I don't disagree with what JoB is saying, I do remember a post, maybe by James MacDonald, who said write a million words, throw them away and then get serious about being published (and I don't mean self-published like on a blog or a vanity press).

I've posted some flash fiction stories on my blog that I've later kicked myself and said, "I should have tried to get those published". But then I reminded myself that I wrote them as exercises and though there might be a few kernels of good stuff in there, I have every expectation that the next stuff I write will be even better. That being said, I have one novel I've trunked, my first one. I may never revisit it but I really think (and hope) that I'll be so much better that it will probably be easier to start something new from scratch than to try to find something salvageable in that early work.

I can already tell that my second and third novels put novel #1 to shame and that's improvement that I can see I've made over the span of a year. Now that I've written 3 novels and umpteen shorts, I know I can and will write more that is, hopefully, good enough to be published one day. There's no shame in calling yourself a student and your work products a reflection of your journey to becoming a publish worthy writer.

Just another perspective to consider.
 

Deb Kinnard

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Auburn's right. I recently hauled out the first book I actually finished, and even after several more run-throughs at edit, it STINKS. I thought it was lovely at the time.

However...in '82 I finished a completely different type of book, a story of time-travel to the 14th century. I wrote it on an Apple //C, saved on 5" floppies, in a software program called Bank Street Writer.

Needless to say, I can't access that manuscript anymore due to the above factors. Who knew we were getting Word Perfect and later MS Word so soon!?

So I rewrote the book in '08, from scratch, just my memory of the story and a completely upgraded toolkit. 20+ years makes a difference, although I would never advise a writer to wait so long!

The result? It's being released in April. Its cover is to the left.

There's something to be said for putting your first piece (or pieces) away and moving on to that next idea bubbling in your head. With God's blessings, someone will someday say, "Yes! What else have you got?" and then you can dig that older project out of the trunk and tweak it for sale.
 

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All right, more advice. This time from a fellow aspiring writer, who might not have much experience, but wants you to succeed.

Anyways, the pros around here would correct me if I’m wrong, so the both of us would learn.

So here are my two cents and a half. (I'm sorry about the long post) I hope it helps.

75,000 words? That’s too much work to give it up.

Have you read recently published books similar to the one you are trying to write?

Before giving it away online, you should wait a couple of weeks, then print it in a different font and read it. By then your brain might be tricked into thinking someone else wrote it. You got to be honest with yourself. And you will be able to see, if it’s worthy or not, and the changes it needs.

Sometimes it’s not the plot, but the way the story is being told.

You should seriously consider before giving it away for free. Another possibility is to post it here in AW, inside the Share Your Work forum, the password is vista.

If you still think it should be publish online in a more public place, I suggest you do it in a fiction site where you can get feedback from readers. Just get ready for what it might come your way.

My first four stories were posted in one of those sites, thanks to the readers's feedback I decided to take writing seriously. That first story got 3,277 readings with 132 positive reviews. Which is average for that site. My other ones got even more. However, there is one I regret posting there. Why, so far it got 17,256 readings with 589 reviews. That was the one who made me think, I could write. It’s particular flattering when some readers write to you, telling that they stayed up all night; just to read what you wrote.

Still there is a long way from self published online for free, to being published by a publisher.

You got a great idea for a story, I don’t know if is just me, but it touched me deeply.

Let me explain why. I was a teen in the 90’s and like your main character I related to my beloved with music. By the 1996 and up I always bought two copies of the same CDs, one for him the other for me. After our tragic break up, I spent years without being able to listen to music. Yes, it was that painful.

I’m sure, I’m not the only one who can relate to your story in a similar way.

The following comments are from reading just the query, and trying to figure the story from it. So I could be way wrong in my assumptions.

I think the story is not the problem, but from where you began to tell it. In what you focus. The time when they met, the romance they lived is important for the story, but the story, if is romance (even chick lit) should be about the main characters.

What matters is not what took place in the past, but what is going to take place in the future, that is what would keep possible readers reading. The readers want to know what happened, but you can’t give it to them in one single chunk, it needs be fed little by little. I would write it from the moment Norielle got the CD, her reactions, and her intrigue for knowing his motives, etc. What does he wants from her today, for example.

Reading the query it seemed a story about music of the 1990s. As much as I loved that music, and those times, I would not buy a book just to read about it.

Now, and this is another example, I would buy a book about a couple that shared those times, reunited in the present, and had lived, changed, evolved, almost to the point to be strangers. They think to know each other, but they really don’t. The conflict between them has to be current for me to care.

Another thing to consider is that readers can't hear the songs that inspired you, and you can't use the lyrics in your work. So the only thing you can tell about from the music is the feelings that sprang from it.

And the hardest part for me to tell you. Girl, you need a new title. Seriously, you do. Something that could catch the possible readership’s interest, inviting them to read the blur.

I suggest leaving out any reference to another writer’s work too.

Your work is unique, you don’t want anybody mistaking your novel with fan-fiction, right?

If the editor later want to put those references in the blur, which I doubt, is up to him/her.

Speaking of blurs, the query could be more like one. It should be about the main characters, their inner conflicts, their reactions to see each other again, maybe a little suspense why he contacted after all these years.

Did you query only agents? Why don’t you try the publishers directly?

Ours is a craft only learned by practice, so keep writing.
 
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Stacia Kane

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85 queries and only 6 partial requests tells me the problem could very well be your query.

6 partial requests and no full requests tells me it may be the writing.

I'm going to ditto job here. The second book I ever wrote was better than my first, but still not great. I sat on it for a few years, wrote more books, got to a point where they were selling, then went back and did some extensive editing. I just wasn't willing to give up on that story and those characters, even after all that time.

It sold to Cerridwen Press and got some of the best reviews of my romance-writing career. So I'm quite glad I didn't just throw it away, and I'm quite glad I don't have the first draft around online with my name attached. :)

I think it's too soon to give up. Write more, and come back to it.
 

Glamour177

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So here are my two cents and a half. (I'm sorry about the long post) I hope it helps.

Thank you for the long response! I feel like you gave my situation some serious time and thought and you don't know how much that is appreciated!

Sometimes it’s not the plot, but the way the story is being told...You got a great idea for a story, I don’t know if is just me, but it touched me deeply.

As arrogant as this may seem, I am confident in the plot. I have come to realize from the lack of interest after my partial requests that it is the writing and how I told the story that is the problem.

Let me explain why. I was a teen in the 90’s and like your main character I related to my beloved with music. By the 1996 and up I always bought two copies of the same CDs, one for him the other for me. After our tragic break up, I spent years without being able to listen to music. Yes, it was that painful.

I’m sure, I’m not the only one who can relate to your story in a similar way.

I am so sorry to hear about your breakup, but I thank you for sharing it and am happy that you were able to relate to it so much. I think that is why I hate to just lock up my book. I know what I wrote is relatable, but I obviously didn't write it in a publishable way. And 75,000 words is a lot of work to just throw away. I think my issue was that I was looking at it as hide 75,000 words or share it?

I think the story is not the problem, but from where you began to tell it. In what you focus. The time when they met, the romance they lived is important for the story, but the story, if is romance (even chick lit) should be about the main characters.

It is such a coincidence that you say this because my novel does open with the present day and Norielle opening the CD. I felt like my first chapter was my strongest and am really pleased with it. However, I am well aware that the problem starts somewhere in the first 50 pages.

Another thing to consider is that readers can't hear the songs that inspired you, and you can't use the lyrics in your work. So the only thing you can tell about from the music is the feelings that sprang from it.

Ok, my ignorance and beginner writer status is really showing here. I would cite the singer and song name in the book and then use lyrics in between the writing to put the song in the reader's head. I didn't realize that I was allowed to do that.

Thank Xccorpio for all of the thought that you have put into my situation. I truly appreciate it and have more to think about!
 

Southern Girl

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I'm going to chime in, too, as an unpub'd author.

Honestly, I don't know how smart it is to post actual numbers. But I will tell you I've sent out a 1/3 less queries than you, and received only 2 req for partials, and one for full (without asking for a partial first). The first partial got a pass. The second is still being considered, and the full is being considered.

None of the agents I've queried have given my any feedback other than "R"ing my query. A couple have said something to the effect of, "the premise doesn't grab me".

So, I started revamping my query. Still working on it, too. I've sent out a couple of versions here and there, because I felt like I should be doing something (stupid, stupid) and still, no bites. I finally decided to stop querying completely for the month of December, and allow myself time to polish my new query into pristine shape. In the meantime, I'm also hoping to hear back from the partial this month, possibly even the full.

It's my first book, and I've thought a number of times about shelving it and starting something else. I have started another book, but it's a sequel of sorts to my first. I love the characters, and I love the story - I'm not willing to trash it, or give it away just yet. I really want to see it in print someday.

But I do echo those sentiments about ditching the first one and trying to pub the next book I write. I just want to make sure that my problem is with the book, and not with the query. The feedback from the partial and full I have out right now, I hope, will provide me the insight I need to make the decision at some point.
 
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Glamour177

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85 queries and only 6 partial requests tells me the problem could very well be your query.

Oh yeah. My query is lacking. I was aware of that after the first 30 rejections and then wrote a new one (the one I put up on my blog). Unfortunately, that one worked about as well as the first one.

6 partial requests and no full requests tells me it may be the writing.

Again, I totally agree. I thought I had something special here. I really did. I have read my piece over and over and over again. I am sure you know what I am talking about. I really thought the writing was good and that the plot and idea was great. That's why I starting querying my book. I thought it was good.

But I can't ignore the statistics. No matter how good I think my book is, it isn't good enough. There is a problem with the writing but the hard part is that I am too close to this project. I don't understand how I am supposed to fix the "work of art" of mine because I can't see the flaws.

The second book I ever wrote was better than my first, but still not great.

I have read that a writer should pretty much scrap their first book. It is usually crap. I did that for a while. I figured this is crap that I am oblivious of, let me write another book. I didn't think I could come up with another concept, but I actually did and, surprisingly, I think this idea is even better. But writing this second book is so hard. I know it is because I am feeling like I don't write very well due to all the rejections, so why bother with another one? But once the seed is planted, the story must come to life!

Is writing the second book always this hard? Or do I need to snap out of it?

It sold to Cerridwen Press and got some of the best reviews of my romance-writing career. So I'm quite glad I didn't just throw it away, and I'm quite glad I don't have the first draft around online with my name attached. :)

I think it's too soon to give up. Write more, and come back to it.

First off, congrats on your book. I am green with envy!

Ok, ok. All of you have convinced me that it is a bad idea to post my book out there. I have made promises though and would like to keep them even if the promise is altered. Maybe releasing the first 50 pages? Still bad?
 

xccorpio

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Southern Girl, good luck to you. ;)

Glamour177, You’re welcome! One thing that might help you is to read as much as you can from your targeted sub-genre.
I’m writing two stories at the same time, besides work, and I still went to the library and got 10 novels, for when I get a chance to read them, or when I need a break from my own words. There is always something to learn from others.

About the songs’ issue, I learned that in this forum, here is the link to the thread:

[FONT=&quot]Legal Questions, Copyright Laws & Permissions[/FONT]

:)
 

Twizzle

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Chick lit's just impossibly difficult right now. (grrrr.) Listen to the others, esp Stacia. It's way too soon. I did read your query and posts -and I'll add to the already wonderful advice here, Get thee to Query Letter Hell. I think SYW could offer some really great advice if you're having troubles looking at the ms with fresh eyes as well.

And have you had a beta-a good, experienced beta-read through your ms?
 

LorelieBrown

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I have read my piece over and over and over again. ...... There is a problem with the writing but the hard part is that I am too close to this project. I don't understand how I am supposed to fix the "work of art" of mine because I can't see the flaws.

Find yourself a critique group or partner. Or a beta reader. Or post your query, your synopsis and your first chapter in various threads of the Share Your Work section of these forums.

It is a rare beast who can edit their own work, as rare as a unicorn. The author who can edit their own very first (or even second) book to perfection isn't just a unicorn, they're a blue unicorn.
 

Stacia Kane

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It is a rare beast who can edit their own work, as rare as a unicorn.


Hmm. I see what you're saying, but I don't entirely agree. Most authors can edit their own work, at least to a sellable level.

I think they key is distance. Let the ms sit until you've forgotten most of it. Self-editing is a critical skill.
 

LorelieBrown

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Hmm. Most of the authors I know have at the very least a beta reader.

Heck, might make for a good forum poll. :D
 

Brindle Chase

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Heya Glamourgirl... I'm with Lainey... get a critter!!! have you tried beta readers? I found that was the difference in not published... and published... at least for me. They saw what worked and didnt work in my book. I fixed the holes I could never see myself in my book and my rejections turned into partials and fulls and then finally... an offer!!

I've been told that it's rare to get book# 1 published, so I feel blessed that mine was... but I also know it was only because I had many readers tear it apart and expose the flaws! I'm not quite sure I would shelf it, as suggested. I would have crits and beta readers shred it and see what that feedback indicates.
 

Stacia Kane

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Hmm. Most of the authors I know have at the very least a beta reader.

Heck, might make for a good forum poll. :D


Oh, sure they do, absolutely. I wasn't saying authors never had another eye/opinion other than their own; my beta readers are and always have been invaluable. But a beta reader is just a beta reader, not an editor. For me & most writers I know, as you go on the beta reader becomes less an editor than a "Do you think this works?", if you know what I mean. Someone to bounce ideas off of.

The point I was trying to make is that you need to be able to edit your own work for grammar, spelling, characterization, logic/story, etc. It's not a rare skill, it's one you have to learn and cultivate. Sure, betas can catch things you can't, but for the most part there should be little for them to catch, you know?

I just didn't want anyone seeing your post and thinking it meant they needed to pay a professional editor (and I'm sure that wasn't your intention).
 

Glamour177

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I have had a lot of people read my ms, but I am embarrassed to say that none of them are seasoned beta readers. One of them is a writer himself and is getting a children's book published right now. He liked the plot of my book and the funny moments were humerous to him, which I was glad about.

He gave me some good suggestions like making my secondary characters more important to give the book as a whole more depth.

He made a lot of good suggestions, but in looking at my book I think I need to rewrite the entire thing.

I solicited for beta readers a little while ago and got some response, but then changed my mind because of all the agent rejections. I figured this book didn't have a chance no matter what I did with it.
 

Brindle Chase

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I solicited for beta readers a little while ago and got some response, but then changed my mind because of all the agent rejections. I figured this book didn't have a chance no matter what I did with it.

But that's exactly what you want beta readers for. It should be polished, but if its not selling... you need solid feedback on why... especially if you intend to re-write the whole thing. If you don't know what was wrong with it the first go around... how will you avoid the same pitfalls the second go-around?

I'd post for a beta reader for just that. Explain that you got several reqs for partials, but no takers and need feedback as to what's wrong with the story. Find beta-readers who write/read your genre and I think you'll get some excellent feedback. From there, decide if its salvagable or to start over fresh.... anywho... best of luck. I know its tough!
 

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Well, I went and had a look at your query and I can see why you got some requests (it's fun, interesting, a little bit different) and why you didn't get more (it doesn't have enough of the story in it). But here's the other thing I noticed - you wrote almost all of your book in a two-month period, right? Yeah, that's going to need some editing. And I'd bet that's why no one followed up on your full manuscript.

Seriously, I think the best thing you could probably do for your book right now is hide from yourself for six months. Then pick it up and read it again. Then you'll know why it isn't being bought and what you need to do to make it work. I think you've got a good premise that's eminently saleable. But, unless you are a literary genius, writing well is hard work. The first rush of creative energy is only the starting point. There will be days and weeks and months of hard slog, shaping that outpouring of words into a publishable novel. Yes, beta readers or a crit group (and the AW forums can help) but at the end of the day it is your job. But don't give up on the book at the first stage. You may have begun to query too early in the process, that's all.
 

LorelieBrown

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I just didn't want anyone seeing your post and thinking it meant they needed to pay a professional editor (and I'm sure that wasn't your intention).

Hah! God no, certainly not. :D
 

Glamour177

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I definitely decided against posting my entire book on my blog - thank you for all of the advice!

However, I decided to post the first chapter today. I may possibly post the second chapter also, but that will be the extent of it. After that, as Stacia recommended, I will lock it away until I have just about forgotten about it. Until then, I will continue working on my second novel - which will hopefully be more successful.

If you would like to read my first chapter, please feel to stop by and any advice or critiques would be greatly appreciated!
 

xccorpio

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I took a moment to read it, so I can give you my honest opinion. I hope you are ready to read anything.

I would talk to you, like I had done it in the past, with my friends who write. And they had done the same with me. The goal is to improve ourselves, get published and paid.

Take into consideration that is my opinion, from an individual who has read a lot, but I can be wrong too. You might be writing in a new and unique way.

The way you presented how she accessed the 'songs' it's original, but it has a setback: too many technology details. The part I liked the most was the picture of both of them in the cover.

I almost stop reading by the third paragraph, but I decided to read the whole thing, no matter what.

I’m so glad I did, girl, you have talent.

There is something in your voice that promise so much, you merely need to find a way to be able to communicate in a more concise manner.

Like I said before, the theme of the story is great.

Honesty, he should have sent her a music CD already done; which she could play anywhere.

And please keep in mind that the songs, in any media you choose for her to get them, it's just circumstantial. An excuse to reunite them.

The most important elements are your main characters, and their future story with a few flashbacks.

The next paragraph that I liked too, it was when she remembered their early relationship. I’m sure even teens from today can relate to that.

I laughed when she fell, but it reminded me of the unwritten rule that said: a funny moment can kill the angst.

Well, that’s all I have to say. I hope I didn’t sound too harsh, I can be blunt sometimes.

Please keep writing, you can do it.

Best of luck to you :Hug2:
 
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