Sex in a Mystery? Yes or No?

Elaine Margarett · Nov 25, 2009

What do you think about an explicit sex scene in a character driven mystery? Would it be best if it occured off page? The scene is 500 words and I do think it adds to characterization, but the mysteries I’ve read don’t go as far as I’ve gone in what is a fairly erotic scene.

My story as a whole is kind of cozyish as the violence is minimal, but my characters use four letter words when appropriate. The sexual chemistry between the characters is important. There are other scenes that depict this chemistry, but one scene that leaves nothing to the imagination. I’d like to keep it, but I worry it’s too strong.

I’m getting ready to submit and I wonder where the line is. Should I leave it in with the expectation I can cut it if they don’t like it?

Thanks!
EM

Jamesaritchie · Nov 25, 2009

The line depends on the publisher, and the particular audience that publisher is trying to reach. For me, a really explicit sex scene in a mystery would be out of place, and I wouldn't like it, but other might.

But it's always a matter of publisher and particular audience.

sheadakota · Nov 25, 2009

My first thought would be a big no- I read (and write) mysteries and thrillers for the story- romance, for me, should be implied and not described. Cozies in particular I don't think should have explicit sex. MHO

ToddWBush · Nov 25, 2009

I would think that the only sex in a cozy would be between the cat and his love for cat food. Just my opinion.

Cyia · Nov 25, 2009

Don't most mysteries use the "Fade to Black" system for sex scenes?

Jamesaritchie · Nov 25, 2009

Elaine Margarett said:
What do you think about an explicit sex scene in a character driven mystery? Would it be best if it occured off page? The scene is 500 words and I do think it adds to characterization, but the mysteries I’ve read don’t go as far as I’ve gone in what is a fairly erotic scene.

My story as a whole is kind of cozyish as the violence is minimal, but my characters use four letter words when appropriate. The sexual chemistry between the characters is important. There are other scenes that depict this chemistry, but one scene that leaves nothing to the imagination. I’d like to keep it, but I worry it’s too strong.

I’m getting ready to submit and I wonder where the line is. Should I leave it in with the expectation I can cut it if they don’t like it?

Thanks!
EM

Even the language will likely have to be changed in a cozy.

The trouble is, most editors reject, rather than ask for such changes.

It's always better to read several mysteries of the type you want to write, and use them as guidelines.

There are markets for mysteries with explicit sex, but they aren't the traditional, commercial markets.

And you don't need explicit sex to reveal character.

jeseymour · Nov 25, 2009

I vote no. I wish I could remember the quote by some famous mystery writer about sex scenes. Can't though, too many concussions in my youth. :tongue

I keep thinking it was Donald Westlake, but it could have been Lawrence Block, something about not needing to explain how the plumbing works. :Shrug:

Especially if you are writing something cozyish, you don't want the sex. Probably not the language either.

ToddWBush · Nov 25, 2009

Why not just change it from a cozy? Then you can have all the blood, guts, and um... yeah... that you want!

Stlight · Nov 26, 2009

I wouldn't want to have sex suddenly appear in a mystery particularly a cozy. I, for one, am getting really really tired of reading sex in everything. Sure it's a part of life, but there are a lot of things that are a part of life that don't move the plot forward.

Sex is now so common in books that the thrill is gone.

Like Cyia said fade to black is good, lets the reader imagine the sex the way they want.

Steam&Ink · Nov 26, 2009

I've written a sex scene in one of my mysteries, but I wouldn't have included it if it wasn't important to the story. I write "cozies", in that the reader is not exposed to violence or anything too gritty. (My characters do swear however, but because it's historical mystery the curse words won't sound too bad to modern readers)

Will an editor hate it? Maybe. I could surely tone it down - I could certainly use less explicit language (I haven't used any "dirty talk" but have used anatomical descriptions, and even this could be too much for a cozy). But as it's still a WIP, I will have to address that later, when I have the entire first draft done.

kaitie · Nov 26, 2009

I wouldn't say the genre necessitates that it shouldn't be included (if it works and is necessary, then it works and is necessary), but I would add that personally, most of the time if I see an incredibly graphic sex scene for no good reason it stands out and is a negative for me. Plus, most aren't necessarily done well. It would have to be incredibly good and have a really good reason for being there, I think.

Also, for me sexual tension is much more interesting in the anticipation stage.

Elaine Margarett · Nov 26, 2009

Thanks all!

The more I've thought about this, the more I feel it should be cut. Now I know it should.

My story really isn't a cozy, I just don't like violence and prefer to have it happen off page. The plot is also realistic in that there are no talking animals and quilting involved. <g> A search dog is an important aspect to the story but as a *real* working dog. I'm pitching it as Stephanie Plum meets Marley and Me. I was a K-9 handler/trainer of detection dogs so that's the background. Hopefully people will find this interesting.

I write romances so it was natural for me to take the scene all the way, so to speak. But I have no problem with ending the scene at the bedroom door. I see now it's more appropriate. I don't want to spring any surprises on unsuspecting readers. In romance you expect it. Here I can have all that great chemistry up to a point.

It's actually very liberating! If you don't write sex scenes, you have no idea how difficult it is to describe such an age old act in a way that hasn't been done before...without getting freaky. LOL

Elaine

fullbookjacket · Nov 26, 2009

I'm not a prude by any stretch, but explicit sex scenes just come out as boring in any genre. There would have to be a compelling plot reason for it to be included, such as something very specific happens during the sex that affects the story.

cwfgal · Nov 26, 2009

My current mystery series, which a reviewer touted as "Stephanie Plum with a CSI twist," is being called a cozy even though it has cuss words and some stong sexual innuendo. There are no overt sex scenes but there are erections, body rubs, nipples hardening, and kisses aplenty. In fact, one recent reviewer suggested that the title of the first one, Working Stiff, was a clever double entendre. So while including an actual lovemaking scene may be a bit over the top, you might be able to get away with a bit of foreplay.

Beth (aka Annelise Ryan)

gothicangel · Nov 26, 2009

My psychological suspense novel contains a sex scene, although I think it's more of a 'love' scene focusing on the emotional and psychological factors [his marriage is falling apart.]

Explicit sex in a cozy. I think it could have the little old ladies dropping their shortbread in their cup of tea!

Cassiopeia · Nov 26, 2009

Nope, I would not put it in there. There can be tension and that...the attraction but not blatant.

However, if you want to write a mystery/romance then you could have a sex scene and then of course there's the erotica novel with mystery in it.

But for straight mystery which I read a LOT of, there's been no sexually explicit scenes. only tensions.

Hittman · Nov 26, 2009

I keep thinking it was Donald Westlake, but it could have been Lawrence Block, something about not needing to explain how the plumbing works.

Donald Westlake. I just read it recently, but I read so much Westlake I can't tell you which book it was in. (I think it was the one about two dozen imported gold statues handed out as trophies. They're all supposed to be reproductions, but the original, real one is included in the shipment as well. A dozen different bad guys are trying to track them all down at the same time, trying to find the real one.)

He compares it to driving, and explains that when an author write about someone driving he doesn't provide details like each time the driver steps on the gas or turns the wheel or shifts gears, so he's not going to go provide the details about the characters having sex either.

jeseymour · Nov 27, 2009

"Dancing Aztecs." One of my all-time favorites. Thanks, Hittman.

Hittman · Nov 27, 2009

Yes, that was it.

I loves me some Westlake. One of our very best authors, ever, IMO, and yes, that was one of his best. In the hands of a lesser writer the story would have been a mess and impossible to follow.

The worst Westlake I've ever read was pretty good. The best was The Axe, and I usually hate things written in present tense. The scary part was my own reaction. The MC was doing all these horrible things, but it seemed reasonable, understandable, and almost acceptable. That made it really creepy.

jeseymour · Nov 27, 2009

Many years ago (it might have been 1998) we went to see Donald Westlake and Frank Serpico speak and read. Two of the nicest guys you'd ever want to meet. The Ax was Mr. Westlake's favorite too. Donald Westlake, and his alter ego Richard Stark, are (is?) one of my favorite authors.

ChristineR · Nov 27, 2009

Okay, maybe a bit off-topic, but there's explicit sex in some thrillers. I think this is one of the elusive differences between mysteries and thrillers...something to do with tone. Does anyone else see this, or is it off base?

MGraybosch · Nov 27, 2009

Elaine Margarett said:
What do you think about an explicit sex scene in a character driven mystery?

Mickey Spillane wrote some sex scenes that were pretty explicit for their time in novels like I, the Jury, and I don't think it detracted from the work.

Hittman · Nov 27, 2009

are (is?)

Was, perhaps. He died last December.

I knew about Richard Stark, but had no idea how many other pen names he used: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_E._Westlake Which is great, that means there's even more of him for me to track down and enjoy.

kaitie · Nov 27, 2009

ChristineR said:
Okay, maybe a bit off-topic, but there's explicit sex in some thrillers. I think this is one of the elusive differences between mysteries and thrillers...something to do with tone. Does anyone else see this, or is it off base?

My guess (note that it's a random drawn from observation guess and I don't read much mystery) is that it's because mystery tends to be a bit more plot focused whereas thrillers can be more character focused. Also there's a bit of that Hollywood ideology involved, I think.

Having said that, most thrillers I've read don't have what I'd call explicit sex, and there are plenty that don't really have any at all.

ToddWBush · Nov 28, 2009

There are no overt sex scenes but there are erections, body rubs, nipples hardening, and kisses aplenty.

Sounds like my prom date...

Sex in a Mystery? Yes or No?

Elaine Margarett

High and Dry

Jamesaritchie

sheadakota

part of the human equation

ToddWBush

Cyia

Rewriting My Destiny

Jamesaritchie

jeseymour

ToddWBush

Stlight

ideas are floating where they will

Steam&Ink

sekrit superhero

kaitie

With great power comes

Elaine Margarett

High and Dry

fullbookjacket

cwfgal

On the rocks

gothicangel

Toughen up.

Cassiopeia

Otherwise Occupied

Hittman

jeseymour

Hittman

jeseymour

ChristineR

What happened?

MGraybosch

Lunch Break Novelist

Hittman

kaitie

With great power comes

ToddWBush