Discomfort

My view is that we should always be truthful. It's the only contract we have with the reader; that we won't cheat, we won't lie (well, except for the fictional story), and that we won't avoid things because they are uncomfortable.

If we do that, I think the reader will follow.

If s/he doesn't, there are other readers that don't require us to give up our integrity.

There's a difference between deliberately setting out to offend a specific group, and a specific group taking offense at something that was written within - and was part of - a fictional context.

I wouldn't worry if the reading of something I had written caused readers to feel uncomfortable by stirring up memories or feelings they preferred to keep suppressed, but I wouldn't deliberately set out to offend.

Am I capable of it? No idea. In my case it's hypothetical because I don't have any readers, but...

Birol said:

In some of the other threads, I've been reading posts, or reading into posts, that many of us are worried about offending our readers. I feel part of being a writer is sometimes making our readers uncomfortable. Not always mind, but sometimes. Often.

How do you feel about this? Are you capable of it?

Click to expand...

I think for me it depends on the kind of offending we're talking about. Some things I don't mind too much. If I write a book and characters have sex outside of marriage, there is a group of people who would probably be offended by that. The way I see it, they don't have to read my book. That sort of thing doesn't bother me.

If you're talking about writing something promoting racism or something of that sort, I'd avoid it at all cost. I try to stand up against inequality when I see it, and I certainly wouldn't be writing it into a book. The key word there is "promoting." I've written books about child abusers and bigots before, but the characters who were like that were the sickening ones that you hated, not the ones that you said, "Woohoo we should all be like him."

For me, offending and making someone question their outlook or opinions on certain things are not the same thing. I've got one story where the MC is a murderer. Yes, he murdered in cold blood. Yes it was premeditated. But he was also killing someone to protect a child. He was also influenced by the events of his own childhood. Do I want readers to say "What a great idea we should all be vigilantes?" No, not at all. But I would hope that it at least makes people think about what they consider acceptable and unacceptable, and why. Not everything I write has something like that in there, I suppose, but a lot of it does.

So I guess for me making someone uncomfortable doesn't mean offending them so much as making them think about their views and why they hold them. I think that's a fantastic thing.

I'm not sure creating discomfort and causing offence are exactly the same thing. Creating discomfort could simply mean dealing with difficult subject matter in a frank way. Making readers squirm by forcing them to look at the world in a way they hadn't before. I think, for some writers, that's their job; that's what makes their work important.

That's quite different, I think, from deliberately using gratuitous gore and violence to make people squirm. Or espousing and presenting as fact a world view of glorified racism, Nazism or fascism (for example).

ETA: Cross-posted with kaitie, who seems to be saying much the same thing.

Think of books like A Clockwork Orange where the MC comes through as sympathetic and friendly while at the same time horrifies you by being a monster. Books should challenge people at least on some level. I don't mean we should all write literary fiction or memoirs but even Lord of the Rings had some of that (think Boromir). If everything's too clean-cut and acceptable to you, it might be fun but it won't really be memorable.

Hmmm. That's an interesting question. I've written things some people may not prefer to read (language or violence or whatever), but never with any intent to be provocative. Whatever it was that happened in the story, it's just what happened.

Many, if not most, readers of fiction expect something extraordinary to happen in a novel. Since overcoming an obstacle is central to most plots, and obstacles are generally an event, attitude, or adversary that is at least initially perceived as a negative, you're going to find that a lot of bad things (and sometimes with bad words or naked stuff) happen in fiction. That's sort of deliberately making someone uncomfortable, but they paid you to do it.

For me, I don't think I would deliberately tweak a story with the intent of discomfiting the reader. I always think of it as a meeting of the minds and I don't make an effort to set my own teeth on edge, although it happens organically with some of the stories that crop up in my head. I wouldn't treat a reader any differently.

I'll throw in my lot with those who said that there's a difference between being offensive and writing things that are meant to make others think. I wouldn't go out of my way to be offensive in my writing.

There are characters who may be offensive, even going out of their way to offend other characters in the book, but I don't think that counts, and those sorts of characters aren't usually meant to be liked.

Another wrinkle... I believe you should portray the characters that you put in the villain role, or just bad characters generally, should be treated with respect. Ie you shouldn't gloss over for instance a raging homophobic clansman's racism and do a lecture about the badness of racism...

What I mean is, i think you should make an as strong a case as possible for his point of view. In his pov racism is good, homophobia is protecting the family, segratation or even outright persecution is for the benefit of all.

In the overall story arc you can of course show that racism and such is bad, mkay, but when you speak out of this character's pov, shouldn't you put forward his case and his views?

Absolutely, I'm all for offending the tender sensibilities of others.

You can't please everyone, and doesn't matter what you write, someone, out there, will get offended in some bizarre way.

Birol said:

In some of the other threads, I've been reading posts, or reading into posts, that many of us are worried about offending our readers. I feel part of being a writer is sometimes making our readers uncomfortable. Not always mind, but sometimes. Often.

How do you feel about this? Are you capable of it?

Click to expand...

I'm not worried about it at all, but I know it'll happen.

My first loyalty is to the characters. I write them as well as I can and sometimes cry (yes, really) because of the disconnect between what they whisper in my ear, and what I type. But I do my best. Even if my best is never good enough.

For every person who's offended by something I write, there will be someone who appreciates it. It's not that I intend to offend...I just acknowledge that I can't do anything about what someone else thinks of my work.

That said, I refuse to shy away from touchy subjects - adultery, abortion, religion, you name it. Only when appropriate to the story.

If the characters want me to write something, I will, regardless of possibly causing offence to a reader. That's not to say I don't keep the readership in mind - I'm always conscious of my genre and tailor the way I present the material accordingly.

But acknowledging your readership is far, far different from tiptoeing round a particular reader or readers.

... only great authors are capable of making readers truly uncomfortable. And since I am not great, or capable of ever being so in any sense of the term, the issue of making readers uncomfortable isn't of any concern for me.

I will of course continue to admire novels by the greats, like Dostoyevsky, who make me sublimely uncomfortable. That's their job. Not mine. And I'm perfectly okay with that. I am just happy to be able to tell a story, period, which some may enjoy and be entertained by

Some people want to be offended and you can't please everyone.

But that doesn't mean you shouldn't try to not be a racist/sexist/whateverist chump. I read in the other thread a nice line about how if we can write vampires and fairies and whatnot we should be able to write outside our sexual preference, identity race and sex. I think ultimately as writers it is our job to push ourselves into new places before we ever try to take readers there.

I think you have to hope that your book reaches the "ideal" reader at least some of the time. Out of my betas, I had one who couldn't finish my novel. The subject matter was too overwhelming. I wasn't offended in the least. She wasn't my target audience and we both knew it. You can't please all the people all the time, and all that jazz.

I've never set out to intentionally offend anyone, but the simple fact that I write about a woman who comes back from the dead, vampires and any other number of nasty "evil" creatures, people who kill and like doing it, and have all sorts of violence scenes....well, those things offend some people. I have relatives who find what I write about offensive and have told me so. But they're not my target audience anyway.

I agree with the other posters who've said there's a difference between setting out to be offensive to a particular group, and just writing about something that someone will find offensive. You can't be true to yourself and your story if you aren't offending someone--there are people in the world who will use any excuse to take offense at something you say or do.

There is at least one scene in Three Days to Dead that I know many readers will find uncomfortable. I knew it because writing it made *me* uncomfortable. I debated leaving it, and I almost took it out. But in the end, the story needed it. The character needed it to have happened.

As a reader, I like it when an author makes me uncomfortable. I like it when they make me squirm--for a legitimate reason. Getting a visceral reaction from a reader is like the Holy Grail of writing for me, and I respect writers who get one out of me.

No matter what I write, I strive to make the character realistic. If my character is racist, then I try to make his racism as realistic as possible. If someone is offended by that, then they are being offended by my character, not by me.

In my novel, Blue-Eyed Son, one of the characters is violent towards women. It doesn't mean that I am, (I am not) and in the end, this nasty character gets his comeuppance.

So, the readers who were offended by my character, get to see justice done in the end.

The only discomfort I have is that I can't write it well enough

It's not that I'm worried about offending someone per se ( bound to, I mean I unintentionally offend people quite regularly!), but offending people because I've not done a good enough job at portraying whatever it is I'm trying to portray - for instance as I said in the other thread, it's not that I'm worried that writing a gay protag might offend people - but the thought that if I do it badly, then gay people would be offended....

If you see what I mean.

It's just sort of a niggle at the back of my mind.

Making readers squirm cos I've written something that makes them uncomfortable would actually be a bonus - as long as it was because I'd written it well

I don't set out to offend people, but I also understand that some people are going to be offended. Heck, some people are easily offended and I know they're not going to be my target readers. I also write about things that could upset people but these things are essential to my stories. I do think that drama is inherently uncomfortable (we're out to hurt our characters!) I'm writing about war, and there are certain things that upset ME, and I assume it may upset my readers as well, but I didn't write them thinking, "How do I do it to offend my readers?"

We can't please everyone. We can't even please some people all the time. As a writer, I feel that my job is not to "please" everyone but to tell the truth, and tell it entertainingly.

Maxinquaye said:

What I mean is, i think you should make an as strong a case as possible for his point of view. In his pov racism is good, homophobia is protecting the family, segratation or even outright persecution is for the benefit of all.

Click to expand...

DWSTXS said:

No matter what I write, I strive to make the character realistic. If my character is racist, then I try to make his racism as realistic as possible. If someone is offended by that, then they are being offended by my character, not by me.

Click to expand...

Agree wholeheartedly with these sentiments.

I was chastised over the weekend by someone who read a scene from the point-of-view of one of my characters who is a sociopath. He was excited at the prospect of killing a child, because he'd never done that. The comment I got was that it "made the reader sympathetic to him" and that she didn't think I wanted to do that.

Heck, I thought that meant I was doing my job. I told her everyone is the hero of his own story, and a scene from his point-of-view will invariably paint him as the good guy.

Birol said:

And what if, aside from their beliefs about the color of one's skin, the racist is just like the person next door? Someone you'd have to dinner and trust to watch your kids? What if the racist was just like your ideal reader? What if the racist didn't believe they were a racist?

<Substitute word of choice for 'racist'.>

Click to expand...

I believe that to truly write a realistic portrayal of a racist, is to show him as feeling completely justified in his views, (as a lot of them feel) and therefore, your racist neighbor probably wouldn't have a problem with it.

Just my opinion though

Two cents chucked in the tollbooth of the writing life's slow lane.

Being true to the story is all that matters. If that makes readers squirm, then it's working at its highest levels. That's not to say that every story must evoke squirmage (moving readers for any reason is good), but to point out that the power of the story is in its truths. You start watering that down because of your perception of what may offend (notice that I said “perception”), then you damage what is strongest in the writing.

What are these truths? They're emotionl, psychological, and even philosophical, but that absolutely does not mean you have to belive them. You only have to make them true in the context of the story.

Now, have I muddied the water?

Here's an example. Write about a serial killer who believes that what he does is for the absolute good. No one in their right mind will agree with the bastard, but if you're going to be true to the story and that character, you're going to make him one absolutely convincing son of a bitch. If you don't, he's just going to be one more of those one-dimensional “he does it cause he's kuh-kuh-kray-z” villains we've all seen and depsise not becaue of their villainy, but because writing shallow is a copout. If you don't dig into that nutball to find out what makes him tick, and if you don't put it on the page, you're not doing your job.

Same thing with any other part of a story that may seemingly cause offense. Dig into it. Expose it.

Your heroic characters, if the exist, will duly counterpoint, and the squriming will subside.

(P.S. I'm the one in the slow lane, not you. )

Then I recommend that the issue of the neighbor's racism is addressed in the novel. It doesn't have to be resolved, but it should at least be mentioned. If it's overlooked, then the reader will be more than happy to point it out for you.

Summonere said:

Being true to the story is all that matters.

Click to expand...

This. As writers we have only one thing going for us - the readers desire to believe what we say.

If we break that trust with the part that makes us uncomfortable, then we'll make everything else we say in the story unbelievable.

Birol said:

And what if, aside from their beliefs about the color of one's skin, the racist is just like the person next door? Someone you'd have to dinner and trust to watch your kids? What if the racist was just like your ideal reader? What if the racist didn't believe they were a racist?

<Substitute word of choice for 'racist'.>

Click to expand...

... may be wrong about this, but I think there are certain lines writers just can't cross if they want to be published by the mainstream press, and portraying a racist in a completely positive way is one of those taboos. You can of course portray racists, but you also have to blunt that racism and undercut it, somehow. Again, I may be wrong about this, but I personally have never read a book of such sort in this day and age, that glorifies racism, though I'm sure there are small presses that may put out such titles. Most editors would honestly be like, "Yuck."