Dialects in Novels?

Maxinquaye · Nov 22, 2009

How would you handle informal use of dialects in your novels? Ignore it altogether? Or would you use it to 'describe' you character? I'm sort of weighing it as I revise my WIP. I think it would add authenticity to have a paragraph like the following:

Guy's pretty good, he thought, watching the boy feign and then run around the other boy, whilst keeping tight control of the ball. What with Ern's injury, Coach would take him, he would. He be daft if he didn't

Of course, I could write the inner speech in informal, but correct, english with correct tense, correct parts of speech, and all. It sort of adds autheticity, or it might be a show-stopper.

How do you handle it?

ETA: It isn't a big PROBLEM - i can do either way, whatever's is best for the story. But it is kind of interesting, and would be interesting to hear how you'd handle it.

Kalyke · Nov 22, 2009

Hey! Give it whatever voice you want! Lots of novels are written with the character's special speech pattern whatever it is. Look at Angela's Ashes, or any of James Ellroy's books. Heck, do you think those people in Shakespeare's time actually spoke in iambic pentameter?

Shakesbear · Nov 22, 2009

Iambic pentameter is about the rhythm of speech rather than dialect. I would only attempt dialect if I could do it very well and if it would be intelligible to readers. For an insight into how difficult it can be see here: http://www.norfolkdialect.com/speaking.htm there are four levels to guide through the joys of Speaking the Norfolk Dialect - and I think it would be as difficult for any other dialect.

Maxinquaye · Nov 22, 2009

Use Her Name said:
Hey! Give it whatever voice you want! Lots of novels are written with the character's special speech pattern whatever it is. Look at Angela's Ashes, or any of James Ellroy's books. Heck, do you think those people in Shakespeare's time actually spoke in iambic pentameter?

It's not about speech pattern or slang or poetry metre. It's dialects. It's not about throwing in the word 'fuck' in every sentence.

In the UK people can speak quite differently. A Geordie will sound very different from a Scouser. A Scouser will sound very different from a Cockney. And it won't be slang or informal speech, it will be a dialect, and it will be the way most people in that area speaks.

If you're going to be writing about a native in a particular area, he will be speaking a dialect. Question is if it's worth the bother to translate it into writing or not. Hmmm.

Kristiina · Nov 22, 2009

There is also the question whether the readers will be able to understand it well enough. I won't necessarily read very far if I have struggle to figure out exactly what is being said.

Mad Queen · Nov 22, 2009

As long as the writer doesn't use phonetic spelling ('e be daft if 'e didn't) and it's not annoying and repetitive ('fuck' in every sentence), I like dialects in novels a lot. If I knew more about different dialects, they'd be in all of my stories.

Canotila · Nov 22, 2009

Brian Jacques uses phonetic dialect heavily in his Redwall series, and for the life of me I don't understand how people manage to decipher any of the dialogue.

Maybe I'm just stupid or something. It sure felt that way trying to read it, these are books marketed toward and loved by children. I know kids who read and love them. Me? Couldn't make it through the first chapter. There was this one hedgehog character who could have been talking through a trombone for all I could tell.

Sevvy · Nov 22, 2009

It depends on the narrator for me. If the character is telling the story, then the story takes on his tone of voice and therefore might have some of his dialect in it. Usually though I save dialect for dialogue.

IceCreamEmpress · Nov 22, 2009

As a reader (and as an editor), I hate phonetic spelling, but don't mind word choices that reflect a particular way of speaking.

Maxinquaye · Nov 22, 2009

IceCreamEmpress said:
As a reader (and as an editor), I hate phonetic spelling, but don't mind word choices that reflect a particular way of speaking.

Yeah. Around here people keep dropping letters all over the alphabet. I think one should take care when using dialects.

I'm trying to think of an american writer that uses dialect. The closest that comes to mind, of the best selling ones, is John Grisham. I sense, but that may be just my imagination, that he basically writes in southern-speak.

Again, it's just my impression. But I have the sense that US dialects are less distinct from each other than UK ones. But that's an impression from half a world away.

ishtar'sgate · Nov 22, 2009

Dialects and speech patterns are tricky but doable. I think what you have here sounds okay. I once had a child speak with a lisp. That was a disaster so I cut it out, all except the very first instance. I left that in so readers would know he had a lisp. Dialect can be fun if used sparingly. Long speeches don't work well and are usually skipped over by readers.

Mr Flibble · Nov 22, 2009

Maxinquaye said:
Again, it's just my impression. But I have the sense that US dialects are less distinct from each other than UK ones. But that's an impression from half a world away.

Oh they are pretty distinct, in many cases. In some cases so distinct a phrase book is advisable.

I'd go with this:

As a reader (and as an editor), I hate phonetic spelling, but don't mind word choices that reflect a particular way of speaking.

And add that the order of words can be very revealing too.

I ain't never done that
I have never done that
I never done nothing like that
It wasn't me, copper, I was framed!

Any internal thought should be in the same manner of speaking as actual dialogue.

JamieFord · Nov 22, 2009

Give it a shot. But it's like spice, too much and you can easily overpower the dish. Cold Sassy Tree annoyed the heck out of me, but Push didn't. Probably depends on the reader. Also, sometimes dialect is actually more about word choice than "talking funny" and can be handled that way.

Slushie · Nov 22, 2009

Maxinquaye said:
I'm trying to think of an american writer that uses dialect. The closest that comes to mind, of the best selling ones, is John Grisham. I sense, but that may be just my imagination, that he basically writes in southern-speak.

Again, it's just my impression. But I have the sense that US dialects are less distinct from each other than UK ones. But that's an impression from half a world away.

Faulkner and Twain.

Some US dialects: Southern (several different sub-dialects), New Yorker, Bostonian, Midwestern, New Orleanian (sp?), Appalachian, Texan. All of those are *very* distinct and immediately recognizable.

ladyinpink · Nov 22, 2009

I usually use order or words and choice of words to show character. Dialect I don't mind sometimes, but if its overdone (I read something with a list lately...) it can distract from the story.

Hittman · Nov 22, 2009

Many years ago my job was coordinating sales reps visits to stores. My territories were Oklahoma and Texas to Georgia and Florida, and all the states in between. Texans don't sound like Oklahomans. Alabama's dialect and accent is different than Mississippi's, and Kentucky is different still. Hell, Northern Georgia is different from Southern Georgia, and Atlanta is different from either of them.

I used to be able to tell where a caller was from within a sentence, sometimes two, and often which general part of the state they called from. One woman told me she was calling from Tennessee. I told her I'd have guessed Arkansas and she said she'd just moved from there.

I've long since lost that useless talent, but the point is if you're going to do dialects you better know them really well. There isn't a single southern dialect, there are dozens of them, and that holds true for most places. There are books available for actors that go into great detail on the subtle differences of various regions; they might be helpful, but since most readers find heavy dependence on it annoying, you're probably better off just sticking to regional slang and idioms.

JGKelly · Nov 23, 2009

Dialects are the spice of many a story. Just don't be ostentatious about it.
The spelling matters not. Just keep it real. Real is real. Readers hate bullshit.

I had to switch all the dialog of a ghost from the 1700s into what he "would have" sounded like. So I just Youtubed...no, kidding. I thought about where I could find regular speech patterns of that era, but it wasn't an easy trick, since most examples I found were "formal."

Then I remembered. Thomas Paine! "Common Sense." Regular speech for the "common man." I copied down two whole pages of words, phrases, etc...

Otherwise, it's scrambled eggs without salt.

Jen

Bufty · Nov 24, 2009

Spelling does matter. That's how words are recognised.

But dialect continually expressed through phonetic spelling usually only works in material intended for the users of that dialect. To others it can be a jarring and unintelligible mess.

For global consumption it's preferable to use other observable character traits, word choice and sentence construction to indicate dialect rather than using silly phonetic spelling.

And once the reader knows the character speaks with a foreign accent or a dialect the reader will remember and read future dialogue accordingly.

Linda Adams · Nov 24, 2009

Bufty said:
Spelling does matter. That's how words are recognised.

But dialect continually expressed through phonetic spelling usually only works in material intended for the users of that dialect. To others it can be a jarring and unintelligible mess.

Very true. I usually end up putting down a book that misspells to show dialect because it's often distracting or difficult to read. I tried one book where the main character spoke in dialect, and I had to stop halfway through because it was a chore to get through the book. I couldn't even figure out what was going on.

NeuroFizz · Nov 24, 2009

*dusts off old saying* Regarding phonetic spelling for conveying dialect in dialogue...

...write words not sounds. (some exceptions exist)

Maxinquaye · Nov 24, 2009

As I said above, i agree, but dialect is more than spelling words funny. In some cases, you're talking about variations on grammar, word order, the use of tense, or the dropping of tense. You even have words that are unique to the dialect. Geordie is great for this.

Wi hev te gan canny or the readers winnit understand owt

(Well, I won't imply I know the slightest thing about Geordi, ofc

)

Bufty · Nov 24, 2009

Virtually every city in Scotland (and elsewhere) has its own dialect - including unique local words that to a non-local are gobbledygook.

NeuroFizz · Nov 24, 2009

I don't want to have to buy a RosettaStone program in Phonetic Redneck to get through a novel. It's much easier to just put the novel back on the shelf and keep my money in my wallet.

misa101 · Nov 24, 2009

IceCreamEmpress said:
As a reader (and as an editor), I hate phonetic spelling, but don't mind word choices that reflect a particular way of speaking.

I find I don't mind it used sparingly. A good example to me is when the MC runs into someone speaking a new dialect and has a hard time understanding them.

Lets say for example they heard a radio ad from Newfoundland for a popular brand of garbage bags. Most people not from the area hear "some tickin' tuff" but if I were to spell the words they actually said correctly it would be "some thick and tough"

A lot is lost there by not giving the phonetics. As most anyone who has ever spoke to someone from the deep bay can attest, what you hear is not always what they said.

Chris P · Nov 24, 2009

be careful with dialects

As others have mentioned, dialects are very difficult to do unless you can do them flawlessly! I recently read a novel by a British author who used American characters. There is no way for the author to know that American kids "stay home from school" rather than "stay off from school," or at least twenty other instances where he got it wrong. You can't pick up that depth of usage by watching movies.

Requesting a beta who is a "native speaker" might help.

In general, I'd say use less dialect rather than more. Using it less is less of a sin than using it incorrectly!

Oh, and John Grisham uses South-speak because he lives in my state of Mississippi!

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