Estimating novel length?

LOG · Nov 16, 2009

How do you do it? I see a bunch of people on the site with word-tickers that count off their way to completion, but how do they figur eout how long their books are before they even write them? I can't tell, even rough estimate are beyond me, unless I'm talking, more than one-thousand, but less than eight-hundred thousand.

katiemac · Nov 16, 2009

Generally speaking, estimating word count may come with practice. If you've written a novel-length work before, then you may be able to get a general feeling of, "I have X amount of plot, which takes me X amount of words to tell."

Even if you haven't written a novel before, consider the length of books you've read. How much plot was in that book? How many words did it take to write?

If you start with just a kernel of an idea with zero idea of the direction the story will take, then maybe it's harder to nail down a word count. I suspect some of the writers here are also using the end word count goal as a target/goal to actually write "the end", and not necessarily the final word count.

C.M.C. · Nov 16, 2009

I just set the goal as the minimum I need to accomplish before I'm comfortable calling it a novel.

thothguard51 · Nov 16, 2009

My first attempt I had no idea about word count and book ended up at about 500,000 words. I told myself the story will be over when the story is over.

Then once I learned about plotting, pace, and redundancy, the book finished out at about 125, 000 words.

I still say the story is over when the story is over, not one word more or less. But now I have a general idea of how to plot, set pace, avoid redundancy and know how many words are on a page and how many pages it will take to tell the story, give or take a few thousand words.

LOG · Nov 16, 2009

Redundancy?

I worry that the short stories I'm trying to write will turn into novels. They seem like short stories when I put down the basic idea, but when I write down a synopsis of the overall story it seems a bit longer than a short story.

Juliette Wade · Nov 16, 2009

For what it's worth, I never know my word count before I start. Perhaps this is because I haven't written enough novels. On the other hand, with short stories - of which I've written now a few more - I estimate the total length after I've seen about how long a single scene will be. I tend to have a seven-scene structure, but the average length of each tells me if it will be a 7K story or an 11K story. So for novels, I'm thinking that the usual story structure lands you in a certain range depending on the style and density of your prose - which in turn depends on what audience you're writing for.

gothicangel · Nov 16, 2009

The average for a crime novel is 80,000 - 100,000; so that is what I aim for. I'm in draft one so I aim for 80,000 (35,000 to go - woo-hoo!) on this draft, and I'll expand with the second.

Freelancer · Nov 16, 2009

JJM said:
How do you do it?

Personally I'm doing the estimation very poorly. I estimated my novel to 300 pages when I started it. Now it's around 1000. Basically you can estimate anytime, but sometimes when you write the story, as new ideas flashing into your mind, you just keep writing and writing. So usually the estimation is never going to cover the true length of the novel (At least as I experienced and as I know me. Others are very good to estimate it, but sometimes they're also writing the story quite longer or sometimes quite shorter.).

As thothguard51 said. The story is over, when it's over.

Eddyz Aquila · Nov 16, 2009

I just use the word count to calculate it, I only write out my notes and stuff by hand.

But as everyone else said, the story is over, when you consider it's over.

Jamesaritchie · Nov 16, 2009

Read publisher's length guidelines before starting to write. Now you know how long the novel should be when finished. Making it this length is pretty simply, if you learn story structure. As one friend of mine puts it, if you want to write a 100,000 word novel, you write uphill for 90,000 words, and then you write the climax.

Having the right word length in mind before you start writing makes it one heck of a lot easier because you can watch the novel grow toward it. You know roughly how long the opening will be, roughly how long the middle will be, and roughly how long the ending will be, so you make events happen according to which section of the book you're in, and the point where you need that section to end.

Wordwrestler · Nov 16, 2009

JJM said:
Redundancy?

Redundancy of course means repeating yourself. As for what that means in fiction, this could be describing things that have already been described, or using two lines to say something that you already got across sufficiently in the first line.

Now, as for redundancy in plot, of course you won't write the exact same scene or conversation twice, but perhaps you have 2 different scenes that reveal the same dynamic between your characters. You enjoy them both, they're both well-written, but they're not both absolutely necessary. They both accomplish the same thing for your story, and are there fore redundant. You must either eliminate one, or combine them into one.

So, especially in revisions, you ask yourself what the scene accomplishes. If it doesn't provide some crucial insight into your characters or some crucial advancement of your plot, chances are it needs to go. And when you have multiple scenes that accomplish similar things, you have some redundant scenes.

thothguard51 · Nov 16, 2009

Wordwrestler...

Exactly.

There is also redundancy of tag lines not needed when the punctuation does the job...

He/She asked, he/she exclaimed, he/she replied. Well of course they replied if its an ongong conversation. Most tags are really unneccessary and thus, I consider not just bad form, but redundant.

You would be amzaed how you can lower your word count to a manageable size and keep the story flowing smoother by getting rid of redundant phrasing, and such...

Adam · Nov 16, 2009

Rough guess, based on how much story I have. I'm usually not that far off.

That said, I don't aim for the target I set, that's just an ideal length. If the story comes out 10k under/over, then so be it.

LOG · Nov 16, 2009

Wordwrestler said:
Redundancy of course means repeating yourself. As for what that means in fiction, this could be describing things that have already been described, or using two lines to say something that you already got across sufficiently in the first line.

Now, as for redundancy in plot, of course you won't write the exact same scene or conversation twice, but perhaps you have 2 different scenes that reveal the same dynamic between your characters. You enjoy them both, they're both well-written, but they're not both absolutely necessary. They both accomplish the same thing for your story, and are there fore redundant. You must either eliminate one, or combine them into one.

So, especially in revisions, you ask yourself what the scene accomplishes. If it doesn't provide some crucial insight into your characters or some crucial advancement of your plot, chances are it needs to go. And when you have multiple scenes that accomplish similar things, you have some redundant scenes.

Interesting.

Judg · Nov 16, 2009

I figure 100K is a reasonable length for a novel, so that's what I put on my ticker. The current count I get from the word count feature in my word processor. If it ends up a bit longer or a bit shorter, I'm not going to sweat it. This is a first draft anyway, so it's going to change once I start revising.

That's all. Nothing more complicated than that.

thothguard51 · Nov 16, 2009

In early drafts, I get it all down to start with because I know in the final version, its going to be cut up.

My first and only agent to date lopped off the last three chapters of my first book so it ended in suspense of a future. She said I was trying to be too tidy in wrapping everything up... I had to admit, it was better and cut about 10,000 words off right out the gate.

The story ends when the story ends, but sometimes, sooner is better than later.

maestrowork · Nov 16, 2009

It's not precise science especially since I don't outline -- not really. But still, I know the general story and the major scenes, etc. So, let's say, I'm at 80,000 and I'm only at the end of Part I, but there are two more (but smaller) parts to the story -- I extrapolate and figure the final draft is probably going to be closer to 150K than 120K. But I don't like to worry too much about the final word counts -- I focus on telling the story I want, the best way I can.

Now, during rewriters, I would use the word count limits to make sure you cut (or add) the right stuff to keep myself within my goal. It's easier to reach 120K if I have that mark to hit when I'm working on the second or third draft.

Mara · Nov 16, 2009

I just put 100k because it's a common novel length, but I'll probably cut it down in revision.

Apsu · Nov 16, 2009

Thanks for asking, I've been wondering that since I joined these boards.

eyeblink · Nov 16, 2009

I can usually guess going in if an idea is going to be a short story, longer short story, novella or novel, and I'm usually right. Having said that, at least two novels have come about because I've written a longer short or novella, finished it, and realised that there's more story in these characters - and ended up with a novel of 100,000 words or more.

As for the one in my sig, I always knew this was a novel but wondered if I'd have enough even to get to 40k - which would be fine, as it's a contemporary-set character-led YA. I shouldn't have worried - I'm at 31k in draft and I've still got some way to go.

kaitie · Nov 18, 2009

I think I have a relatively rough idea of what I expect from a particular plot. Then the finished product is always longer than that expectation (at least in first draft form). I think most of that comes from experience. I started checking word counts years ago with a friend just for kicks as a way to see how much we'd written because we used such drastically different fonts, and so when I think of a story, I have a general idea. For instance, I imagine my next one will be probably somewhere around 100k. That's allowing a bit of cushion for things that I don't know about yet.

Having said that, I don't really count progress based on word count. It's fun to watch, but I tend to look more at how many pages I managed to put out in a particular day.

Estimating novel length?

LOG

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katiemac

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C.M.C.

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thothguard51

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LOG

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Juliette Wade

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gothicangel

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Freelancer

Eddyz Aquila

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Jamesaritchie

Wordwrestler

thothguard51

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Adam

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LOG

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Judg

DISENCHANTED coming soon

thothguard51

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maestrowork

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Mara

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Apsu

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eyeblink

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