Theme? Plot? Hook? What is this?

popmuze · Nov 8, 2009

I just realized the novel I'm writing is about that time in a person's life when he realizes he's the only sane (or capable) person in his family and that instead of looking to them for nurture and support for the rest of his life they will be looking to him for nurture and support for the rest of theirs.

(I myself--an old, old coot--only realized this a couple of years ago. My m/c is much younger than that).

So what is this--a theme, a plot, a hook--anything?

Lady Ice · Nov 8, 2009

It is a conceit- an idea that you haven't tested out yet. If it's sometime in the book, it might indicate a turning point for the plot or in the character, and it could indicate a theme if you developed it.

AdamH · Nov 8, 2009

Yeah what Lady Ice said.

You've yourself a nugget of an idea. Use it to flush out a plot.

It could grow into your hook but you need to sharpen up the idea a bit. Make it more unique, more urgent.

Good first step though.

backslashbaby · Nov 8, 2009

I'd think of it as a theme. A fine theme, too.

I might be mentally adding other things to it, though, and not realizing it. How would it be developed further as a theme?

popmuze · Nov 8, 2009

Might it be used as the climax? I always have trouble with those.

Lady Ice · Nov 8, 2009

backslashbaby said:
I'd think of it as a theme. A fine theme, too.

I might be mentally adding other things to it, though, and not realizing it. How would it be developed further as a theme?

It reminds me a bit of The Glass Menagerie. Tom has his own aspirations but he also has a duty to his family, who need him. Should you abandon your family in persuit of your own happiness or should you stay and end up resenting them for dragging you down?

I would say that the character needs to be given a goal that he can't have. Maybe a woman or a good job? Something that makes the reader torn between the character leaving and staying.

Bongo Fury · Nov 8, 2009

I dunno, it doesn't seem like a theme to me (unless you're saying that it's part of the human condition that individuals should support even dysfunctional families). That sounds to me like the foundation for a good plot. How your characters react in the situation you describe might in turn be determined by a (hopefully well-concealed) theme. If your theme is that the well-being of the family is more important than personal gain, then the MC sticks around despite the personal sacrifices required. On the other hand, the MC may sever all attachments from his parasitic family and head to Hollywood if individual growth is paramount. The way I see it, theme is the abstract idea that is conveyed through the action of plot.

Shadow_Ferret · Nov 8, 2009

Sounds like an epiphany.

Bongo Fury · Nov 8, 2009

Yowser! Spot on, Mr. Ferret.

backslashbaby · Nov 8, 2009

Interesting. I don't even remember when I learned about themes, but I have the idea that they don't need a goal or plot. I thought they echoed through the plot, so to speak.

I see a kind of coming-of-age theme in the OP's idea. And other themes (parts of themes?) that could be related, but I'll get busted for wankery if I go into those

popmuze · Nov 8, 2009

Go for it!

backslashbaby · Nov 8, 2009

LOL! No, they're rough on the wankery here

I'll get all Oedipal on you, I tell you

But maybe a generational coming-of-age, a sadness about (or exploration of) being The Parent, an orphan now (I've actually heard that in real life). Maybe it concludes in a circle of life idea.

Or if mental illness plays a role, there could be themes of fear and Otherness.

Betrayal/Loyalty? The meaning of family.

Oh, dear. See!

CocoCat · Nov 9, 2009

popmuze said:
I just realized the novel I'm writing is about that time in a person's life when he realizes he's the only sane (or capable) person in his family and that instead of looking to them for nurture and support for the rest of his life they will be looking to him for nurture and support for the rest of theirs.

(I myself--an old, old coot--only realized this a couple of years ago. My m/c is much younger than that).

So what is this--a theme, a plot, a hook--anything?

It's only really a theme if you can say it in a word or two: aging, adjustment, sanity, social issues, family...these are basic themes within the story line you gave us. The point of interest here is the reversal, since it's a character-driven plot (which would need an accompanying climax or if it is the climax that reversal should be the dramatic result of a build up to it). That shouldn't be confused with a 'hook'. The hook doesn't exist yet (what makes your story new?) but you have a canvas there on which to create one. The premise is that we all grow older so you could imagine a tagline such as "Growing old the ungraceful way" and build the conflicts of your story, and in turn that hook, around that central idea to help keep you focussed (you should choose one suitable for your genre).

maestrowork · Nov 9, 2009

I think it's more specific than themes, although it could be a theme if it runs through the whole story. It sounds like a premise to me.

defcon6000 · Nov 9, 2009

popmuze said:
I just realized the novel I'm writing is about that time in a person's life when he realizes he's the only sane (or capable) person in his family and that instead of looking to them for nurture and support for the rest of his life they will be looking to him for nurture and support for the rest of theirs.

Sounds like Arrested Development.

It seems to me that's it's a conflict the character will have to go through, or at least go through the realization.

Theme? Plot? Hook? What is this?

popmuze

Last of a Dying Breed

Lady Ice

Makes useful distinctions

AdamH

Pumped Up Kicks

backslashbaby

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popmuze

Last of a Dying Breed

Lady Ice

Makes useful distinctions

Bongo Fury

Real veneer

Shadow_Ferret

Court Jester

Bongo Fury

Real veneer

backslashbaby

*

popmuze

Last of a Dying Breed

backslashbaby

*

CocoCat

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray

defcon6000

Theme? Plot? Hook? What is this?

Last of a Dying Breed

Makes useful distinctions

Pumped Up Kicks

~~~~*~~~~

Last of a Dying Breed

Makes useful distinctions

Real veneer

Court Jester

Real veneer

~~~~*~~~~

Last of a Dying Breed

~~~~*~~~~

Fear the Death Ray

*

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