Why do you believe what you believe?

I am a practicing, devout (most of the time) Roman Catholic; how I came to be this as an adult is not a simple cradle Catholic tale.

I am, however, a cradle Catholic (meaning for those unfamiliar with the term that I was born into a Catholic family, raised as a Catholic).

But my story isn't that simple. I grew up with Jewish roots as well, plus relatives on my mother's side of the family who were Baptist among other non-Catholic Christian denominations.

So in addition to my Catholic faith, I received a little of many other faiths.

When I went off to college, I found I was curious and so I explored several other faiths. I attended both ecumenical and specific denomination services on campus and off. After college, I again attended other services - as well as my own Catholic ones - to see what fit.

I came very close to committing to Judaism; much about the religion appealed to me, drew me in, but my stumbling block - a big one - is that I do believe Jesus is/was the Messiah. So I could not go that route.

In the end, after a lot of personal comparison and religious experiences, I came to realize that the Catholic Church, while not 100 percent perfect, came closer to my own personal belief system than any other Christian denomination.

So I am a practicing Catholic by choice as well as by tradition and birth.

I don't need a reason not to believe. I would need a reason to believe, and I don't have one. So I don't.

Aidan Watson-Morris said:

Even if heaven isn't a physical place, it's illogical and a mental delusion. There is no 'soul'. There's just a cluster of braincells. That die. But don't worry. When you die, you won't know, so you can't be sad or anything. Just dead.

Sorry if I offended, I'm an impatient and easily annoyed person. Sorry.

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The logic there is infallible. Please. It is just as, if not more, illogical to claim that everything is random--that the existence of life despite the impossibly low odds and millions of things working against it just happened by chance, and nothing is guiding it. THAT is a delusion.

Your offensive rant aside, we are just brain cells that die. Our bodies decompose and go away. That has nothing to do with the presence of a soul. You seem to be attached to the idea that the soul has to be a physical part of your body. It's not.

Aidan Watson-Morris said:

As to oppressing homosexuals/femals/other races/and anything else: Why deny rights because of a loosely translated, shady book that doesn't even directly state that they're to be opressed? Ridiculous.

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First, the Bible is hardly "shady." Second of all, it doesn't call for the oppression of anyone. It is a book telling the Jewish people how to live, and it explicitly requires tolerance of everyone. Anyone who uses a translation of the Bible to justify the oppression of people is an idiot. The only group you've listed that could possibly feel oppressed under Torah law would be homosexuals because homosexual unions aren't recognised by the Torah, and male homosexual sex is forbidden (and female, but to a much lower degree).

But, because of the procedures the Torah requires to actually prosecute anyone for things like homosexual sex (note: homosexuality itself is NOT forbidden), it was nearly impossible to enforce those rules. And now, we can't enforce any because we don't have the Sanhedrin.

So why is a predominantly Xtian "secular" state making laws that discriminate against gays using the Jewish Bible as a guide? No idea. But yet, you generalize a people based on your limited understanding of a book written in a language you can't read. THAT is ridiculous.

Rhys Cordelle said:

If a personal experience of divine revelation is the reason then I'm not going to try to dispute that, but since it isn't a convincing argument to make in favor of your religion (particularly to strangers on an internet message board) please don't post such reasons here.

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What if there was a God whose only method of leading people to believe he was real was through personal experiences of divine revelation?

If that were the case,

a. You'd have a hard time proving to others he was real until they themselves had similar spiritual encounters.

b. Prior to having had your own revelation experience, you'd just be choosing the believe or not to believe based on how you grew up, what your parents did or didn't teach you and whether you rebelled or accepted that, the opinions of those you respect, and your own finite intellect, which might not even be designed to fathom the immensity of a divine being.

It is interesting to note that even if you had chosen to believe in God prior to your own revelation, you would have been acting, going through the motions, and would probably come out changed once you did have an experience.

It is also difficult to have an intellectual conversation about why you do or do not believe and include ideas about faith.

I heard once that talking about love was like dancing about horticulture.

What if faith is difficult to express in rational terms? What if it is as key to belief in God as a personal encounter is? What if faith is the answer to many of the questions of why the believe believers? Is that a cop out?

Rhys Cordelle said:

I'm interested in the core reasons why you believe a particular religion to be true, or why you don't believe any religion, if that's the case. If a personal experience of divine revelation is the reason then I'm not going to try to dispute that, but since it isn't a convincing argument to make in favor of your religion (particularly to strangers on an internet message board) please don't post such reasons here.

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I was born to an atheist father and a Methodist mother. When I was baptized, my father insisted that all references to the Methodist Church be changed to Christian Religion or no child of his was being baptized, so there was two different baptism ceremonies that day. Afterward, so I'm told, I promptly vomited all over the pastor.

Should've been a clue, y'know?

I was raised Methodist, joined the Lutheran (Wisconsin) Church as a teen and was excommunicated just after high school. I didn't really mind, since the religion and church wasn't doing much to improve my life and trusting Jesus and his dad to keep me from wanting to kill myself didn't work for squat. For most of my early 20's, I considered myself a "metaphysician" because I was into Newagey stuff and it sounded cool to tell people that. Now, I'm a Heathen, meaning I follow a Northern Pagan religion.

I choose to be a Heathen because, frankly, it doesn't require belief. The gods don't care if you believe in them or not. If it matters them, they'll give you an experience that will convince you that they do. This religion is based not on faith and belief, but on actions and responsibility. That's what speaks to me and works in my life.

Rhys Cordelle said:

From the outside looking in it certainly sounds ridiculous, I'd agree. But I think it's important to keep in mind peoples intentions.

If I consider, for a moment, that I believed in a god, and believed in the concept of salvation and the threat of hell, then I would certainly be going to great lengths to prevent people from ending up in hell. I wouldn't want to sit by and let people destroy themselves.

That's why when someone preaches to me about why I shouldn't be a gay atheist (a.k.a. the "double whammy sinner") I'm not offended by it if I feel that they are concerned for me. If they're gleefully telling me that I'm immoral and destined for eternal damnation then I might not be so polite in my response

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Okay. So you think they're abusing and opressing minorities to SAVE them? If I wanted to save someone who was a minority, I'd go to a psychiatrist. People have choices. Atheism is not suicide.

Statistically, people believe in what they believe because their parents taught them to.

Personally, i just don't see any reason to hold supernatural beliefs of any kind. Though i do like the european religions. To bad they're all pretty much extinct.

Though technically, one can't really state a reason for believe (or non-believe). Having a certain reason implies reasoning, implies making a concious choice. In which case it is not really a belief but more of a philosophical or religious position. Actual belief is not a matter of concious choice, you cannot, for example, choose to stop (or start) believing for five minutes. So stating reasons can only be rationalization.

DeleyanLee said:

I choose to be a Heathen because, frankly, it doesn't require belief. The gods don't care if you believe in them or not. If it matters them, they'll give you an experience that will convince you that they do. This religion is based not on faith and belief, but on actions and responsibility. That's what speaks to me and works in my life.

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I'm intrigued. Why do you feel you need a religion for this?

JimmyB27 said:

I'm intrigued. Why do you feel you need a religion for this?

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Community.

DeleyanLee said:

Community.

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I'm still intrigued...same question.

I don't believe in gods, but I have a clear sense (also depending on my mood) of astonishment toward That Which Exists. I call myself a nontheist. To me, the question of god or gods is irrelevant to the formation of meaning and understanding. Not to mention, the fact it's just about impossible to logically grapple the mere concept of a god turns me off to the whole idea of worshiping one or any. I am also too eclectic to believe one group of people.

Sometimes my non-theism translates to a certain kind of aesthetic appreciation of What's Here and Now, one that makes me and the world around me an object of mystical - rather than scientific - exploration. Sometimes an atheist (no gods), sometimes a pantheist (all is god)-- when I switch the words, not much changes for me. I'm still astonished to be here at all.



AMC

I was raised by a pair of lapsed Catholics, but have no religious beliefs of my own. I don't believe in any gods. I don't think that life or existence has any inherent meaning or purpose. I think that if I want my own life to have any sort of meaning, then it's up to me to give my life meaning.

Ladyhawke_18 said:

I heard once that talking about love was like dancing about horticulture.

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Lots of societies have horticulture dances, many of them both traditional and sacred.

MGraybosch said:

. . . I think that if I want my own life to have any sort of meaning, then it's up to me to give my life meaning.

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I'm curious about how you go about doing that. It's a widely shared viewpoint.

MGraybosch said:

I was raised by a pair of lapsed Catholics, but have no religious beliefs of my own. I don't believe in any gods. I don't think that life or existence has any inherent meaning or purpose. I think that if I want my own life to have any sort of meaning, then it's up to me to give my life meaning.

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Wow. Were we separated at birth?

ColoradoGuy said:

I'm curious about how you go about doing that. It's a widely shared viewpoint.

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I ignore other people when they promise that adhering to their beliefs or serving their causes will give my life meaning. I had also decided pretty early on that I don't need my life to have a meaning. It's my life. It's the only one I'll get. That's enough for me.

Shadow_Ferret said:

Wow. Were we separated at birth?

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Not likely. I rolled off an assembly line in Troma, New Jersey back in 1978. My model number is VH5150-666-69-13-OU812.

Ah, separated by distance AND time.

Shadow_Ferret said:

Ah, separated by distance AND time.

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And species. You're human. I'm not. I'm also a defective model, but my parents voided the warranty when they had me circumcised, so they were stuck with me.

I was never force fed religion as a child, therefore I believe I was able to explore the concepts on my own with somewhat of an open mind.

I eventually came to the conclusion that God was real, but religion was not.

Though the messages of any particular religion may be of the purist origin, it is the messenger that I ultimately began to despise.

I began to feel that people used religion as an excuse to look down upon others, condemn those that don't follow the pack and believe as they do, and most importantly, for me, twist their beliefs to justify their actions or bad behavior.

The hypocrisy turned me away, but not away from God, away from men professing to be closer to God than me. Because their not, no one is closer to God than another, IMO. But I don't view God as a man in the sky who grants wishes, my view of God is cosmic, mysterious, and to a certain degree a part of all us.

Wouldn't it be nice if this question was so simple to answer! lol

I mean really, lets say this question were like: Am I alive (cogito er sum) OK I guess I am!

But......It's not!

Consider this: As long as we have recorded history, we have debated whether or not we (humanity) have a spiritual aspect. Now if the answer were so easily found we would have put this to bed centuries, no eons ago...yes. We experience order, necessity, sucession, we witness creation (we do it all the time...lol), begining and endings, hierarchy etc etc. But alas have no (zippo) substantial evidence to validate a creator.....only circumstantial (how odd)

To be fair, an honest person would have to admit that there are things they just don't know, and there are things that they DO know. I think most everyone fits into this category. Because of that we can say that knowldge falls into two categories THE KNOWN, and the UNKNOWN.

I HEREBY CHALLENGE ANYONE.......ANYONE...(except God of course) to prove that the existence of God (per se) rests anywhere but firmly in the category of the UNKNOWN.

SO all you have to do is say YOU DONT KNOW......(I know thats no fun)


lolololollol

MGraybosch said:

I was raised by a pair of lapsed Catholics, but have no religious beliefs of my own. I don't believe in any gods. I don't think that life or existence has any inherent meaning or purpose. I think that if I want my own life to have any sort of meaning, then it's up to me to give my life meaning.

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ColoradoGuy said:

I'm curious about how you go about doing that. It's a widely shared viewpoint.

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CG - Actually the older I get the easier it gets.
Pretty easy once you have the food, warmth & shelter thing sorted.
Basically sightseeing after that.
Unfortunately I'm still working on the shelter.
I think most people spend the majority of their lives on that "basic" need (i.e shelter - damn you Maslow, damn you to hell!) and next thing they know - its all over.
In truth though, it is the journey, not the destination (finally understand that). Course, a few nice pillows for one's back is no harm...

In truth though, it is the journey, not the destination (finally understand that).

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But that's the meaning, if I understand. I think you're saying something different from what MGB is saying, which is that the journey in and of itself does not signify.

MGraybosch said:

I was raised by a pair of lapsed Catholics, but have no religious beliefs of my own. I don't believe in any gods. I don't think that life or existence has any inherent meaning or purpose. I think that if I want my own life to have any sort of meaning, then it's up to me to give my life meaning.

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Paul said:

In truth though, it is the journey, not the destination (finally understand that). Course, a few nice pillows for one's back is no harm...

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TerzaRima said:

But that's the meaning, if I understand. I think you're saying something different from what MGB is saying, which is that the journey in and of itself does not signify.

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Em, can you clarify?
Me = There is no BIG meaning (destination) Only a series of meanings along the way, which, because there is no big meaning, we can only create. (as there is no absolute)