saints meet folk magic

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satyesu

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i'm thinking about a magic system using "patrons" called upon to help with problems in their domain (patron of desperate cases, of hunters, of specific days). One thing I'm debating is whether:
a) to have normal people's folk remedies, talismans invoking the entities, etc actually work but have "career magicians" somehow use it more powerfully, or
b) have the true "magic" be exclusive while the common folk pray or something with indeterminable success.
What do you think? Any other suggestions? Thanks!
 
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satyesu

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every source i found on the first either assumed a knowledge of the subject's vocab or was very short. will either of you suggest a resource to learn about those?
 

satyesu

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Yep.
The priests are known as Babalorishas, "fathers of orisha", and priestesses as Iyalorishas, "mothers of orisha", and serve as the junior Ile or second in the hierarchical religious structure. The Babalorishas and Iyalorishas are referred to as "Santeros(as)" and if they function as diviners of the Orishas they can be considered Oriates. The highest level of achievement is to become a priest of Ifá (ee-fah). Ifa Priests receive Orunmila who is the Orisha of Prophecy, Wisdom and all Knowledge. Ifa Priests are known by their titles such as "Babalawo" or "Father Who Knows the Secrets." In the recent years there have been initiations of "Iyanifa" or "Mother of Destiny," but their role as Ifa diviners is not generally accepted per the Odu Ifa Irete Intelu which states women cannot be in the presence of Olofin or Igba Iwa Odu and therefore cannot be initiated as divining priestesses. Instead women are initiates as Apetebi Ifa and are considered senior in Ifa to all but fully initiated Babalawos. However, since Santeria developed outside of its West African origin and acquired various influences of Catholicism, Congolese religion, spiritism and Dahomean influences, the opinions of other side (West Aafrican or Cuban) have little relevance for either tradition. There is even West African evidence as well as in Brazil that women in Ifa priesthood, albeit small, may actually be in existence for a number of centuries, especially since some religious houses of the Candomble tradition were founded by iyanifa. There is some regional variation to acceptance of women being initiated to Ifa even in Nigeria, while it is more common than not for women to be accepted in those areas. But the regional practices may have actually contributed to Cuba's restriction of women in Ifa priesthood perhaps due to the practices and theological opinions of one group overruling that of another within Yorubaland.
See, it launches in. What's an orisha? How does one "receive" one? etc.
edit: oh, missed the orisha link. but that page is filled with long, blocky paragraphs that don't go very deep too :(
 
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Smiling Ted

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Yep.

See, it launches in. What's an orisha? How does one "receive" one? etc.
edit: oh, missed the orisha link. but that page is filled with long, blocky paragraphs that don't go very deep too :(

Satyesu...
These terms, as you noticed, are all hyperlinked to other entries you could read. In addition, there are half-a-dozen external links listed at the end of the Santeria article alone, not to mention external links listed at other articles.

This was a subject that I researched for a project of my own, and I got through it. Meet us half-way.
 

satyesu

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Right, Ted. Sorry. Before I get too deeply into the research, may I ask those of you who know al;ready whether murmurings of human sacrifice I'm seeing have basis in the facts of these religions?
 

Smiling Ted

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Right, Ted. Sorry. Before I get too deeply into the research, may I ask those of you who know al;ready whether murmurings of human sacrifice I'm seeing have basis in the facts of these religions?

Pretty much not.

These are polytheistic religions, often the religions of slaves, with roots in African and Native American cultures - all of which were despised by the Christian colonizers of the New World. Naturally they ascribed the foulest rites they knew to the religion of "the other."

However - ANIMAL sacrifice (chickens, for instance) is not uncommon; there are magical as well religious elements to the traditions; and their views of good and evil differ somewhat from those of Christianity.

If you live in a large city with a Caribbean neighborhood, you'll find botanicas there - you could go to one of these herb shops to find out more.
 

dirtsider

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You might also try finding the National Geographic series Taboo. They have a couple of episodes on Voodoo which are pretty interesting. Also look for the Haunted History series which has a couple of eps on Voodoo. They're a good place to start and the DVD's are available in most local stores so they should also be available either via the libary or Netflix.
 

Smiling Ted

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sorry to be a nuisance,but does that mean "somewhat yes"?

No.

It means that it is very hard to prove a negative, especially in a field you've researched only a little.

But it also means that not once in my research did I encounter a credible charge of human sacrifice, even in articles that discussed controversies over animal sacrifice and the traditions of sympathetic magic involved in "voodoo dolls." All the episodes of human sacrifice I found came from horror movies, cheap fiction, and from drug dealers who invented their own cult and called it Santeria.

And I found no human sacrifice in the dogma of Santeria or Voudoun. Theologically speaking, Christianity has more human sacrifice than Santeria.
 
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