HF Market Problems

Welcome to AW.

Yes, it will not be easy. Many who say they take HF do mean HR. Others have a mantra: "The current market dictates ..."

Start with the list of agents here on AW and with Agent Query. You might also look at reputable small independent publishers and submit directly to them.

Hi HisBoyElroy and welcome to AW and historical fiction. I'm going to add to what Donroc said.

Because you already know the market is tough, please - before you even begin querying, go to Share Your Work here in AW (a bit below this forum on this main page - password protected but easy to get into) and ...

1. Look over the queries in the Query Letter and Synopses Forum to see what they look like. It's also advisable to post your query there and let the experts rip it apart. You don't want to lose potential market opportunities with a query that's not up to snuff.

2. But, even before you do that, look at the Historical Fiction forum there and read over some of the postings and comments (there are a few first chapters). It also would be a good idea to post your first chapter (or first thousand to twenty-five hundred words) there and let the critters on that forum look it over. Again, you don't want to lose opportunities with a manscript that's not ready.

The biggest mistake newcomers to the marketing portion of writing make is querying before they really are ready. This is where taking a little bit more time can make a tremendous difference in your hoped for success.

Hope to see you over in SYW. Welcome and good luck! Puma

First, hello and welcome to AW!

HisBoyElroy said:

My passion is history, military history in particular. I just finished writing a historical war novel set in ancient times. Unfortunately, I didn't investigate the market before I started. I haven't started marketing the book yet, but as I begin to I'm seeing problems.

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I can definitely relate. My first novel is set during the opening years of the Second Punic War. I don't know that I'd call it a war novel, but the conflict is a central piece of the story.

Agents and genres: Lots of agents list HF as a genre they desire. However, few to none of them have apparently ever sold one (I mean a book like mine). I think HF may mean Historical Romance. Hard to tell who to send a historical war novel to.

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I think anyone who's queried a historical novel in recent years has run up against this - and indeed, a lot of agents who list HF do seem to mean Historical Romance.

The best advice I can give - as someone who hasn't sold his book but has had a smattering of requests for partials - is to query widely. Sometimes it's possible to read between the lines...if the agent is looking for historical fiction, romance, and chick lit, you may want to skip...but I've had partial requests from some pretty unlikely sources, so who knows.

I'd also second Puma's advice about visiting the SYW forums. Part of what makes querying so frustrating is the pretty much absolute lack of feedback. When all you get are form letters, it's very hard to identify the disconnect. Is it that your story isn't what the agent is looking for? Is it the query? Something else entirely? Putting your query through the SYW crucible can at least ensure that side of things is as good as it can be.

Writers of Historical War Novels: There aren't any in the USA. Michael Curtis Ford, I think, has quit the business. Pressfield has valiantly, if rather desperately, tried to duplicate his success with Gates of Fire to little avail. That book is 10 years old now. I think Ford may have benefited from its popularity, but it failed to make a permanent mark. All the other American men writing HF are writing mysteries involving ancient detectives, a subgenre which holds little interest to me.

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I believe Scott Oden (who posts here occasionally) is from the U.S. As is David Anthony Durham.

Even more ominously, I'm seeing a smattering of abandoned 2-book "trilogies." John Maddox Roberts (Hannibal's Children) and Thomas Quinn come to mind.

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I'm not familiar with Quinn, but "Hannibal's Children" is actually alternate history (and in my opinion rather poorly conceived...the departure point is a historical impossibility). Who's to say why that particular trilogy was abandoned? Maybe Roberts wanted to get back to his SPQR mysteries, maybe the story spun out of his control...or yeah, maybe it completely tanked.

Even worse, I can't think of any first novels in the genre.

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David Anthony Durham's "Pride of Carthage" comes to mind.

It appears there may not be a market for historical war novels in the USA.

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Without access to solid sales figures, I think it's pretty tough to make judgments on which genres are and are not succeeding. But, based simply on wondering around bookstores, and seeing what gets pride of placement out front or on aisle ends, etc, it seems to me that there is still plenty of demand for historicals set in the ancient world. Obviously they sell well enough for a Barnes & Noble to give them some of the more competitive real estate in the store.

Yes...

I agree with the other posters, do get your manuscript thoroughly edited, read by knowledgeable readers who like your period, and read by someone who knows what is publishable and marketable. Preferably someone who is actually of the publishing world.

Part of what makes querying so frustrating is the pretty much absolute lack of feedback.

It is not an agent's job to give feedback. They all say this. Their job is to say 'NO' unless they see they can sell the manuscript and make money from it, and yes, of course they get it wrong! Have a look at Miss Snark's old website and her new -sorry, I don't have the urls to hand but others here know them - she says this and other pertinent facts.

The big British agencies with whom I queried told me that they receive up to 8,000 queries per year and only take on ONE or perhaps TWO new writer per year. Other British agents expect around 5,000 or 6,000 queries and again only take on ONE or TWO new writers. If your work is not instantly seen as publishable and then marketable you have no hope.

Small Presses abound and there are some specialist historical ones. They are worth investigating.

I can only suggest that you draw up a long list starting with your first choice agents and then working down the list to publishers who accept queries, onto Small Presses, and finally the Specialist Presses who work with POD and e-books.

It would be nice to think that a mainstream agent and then publisher will take you on, we'd all like a penguin or similar symbol on our books, but in this economic climate, with the number of submissions going out, it is unrealistic. The Small Presses and Specialist Presses have a lot to recommend them, including treating the writer fairly and with a close relationship.

pdr said:

Part of what makes querying so frustrating is the pretty much absolute lack of feedback.

It is not an agent's job to give feedback.

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True, it's not the agent's job to give feedback (and if they did, they'd probably never get anything else done).

But...the feedback vacuum is still frustrating, as it's difficult to tweak your approach when you can't get a hint as to what's working and what's not.

Ah yes!

Sorry, Doogs, wasn't saying you didn't know that, was just making sure our new chap understood it.

And for feedback that's why I like the British system where there are reputable manuscript agencies run by retired or part time editors and agents who do know the current publishing scene, what is publishable an d what is marketable.

I have nothing to add, except to second pdr's comments.

The statistics may seem devastating when you first hear them, but it's better to know the odds.

Of course, you can try "writing to the market" but there are a number of reasons not to do that, not the least the fact that you are passionate about your subject, not vampire fiction, sci-fi, etc.

Major publishing houses do seem to focus on mainstream big-sellers, but as pdr pointed out, there are many smaller presses who may be interested. Just believe in your subject and write the best book you can.

Hisboyelroy,

Welcome to AW. Hone that query and put it in SYW before you send out. Good Luck!

Doogs said:

True, it's not the agent's job to give feedback (and if they did, they'd probably never get anything else done).

But...the feedback vacuum is still frustrating, as it's difficult to tweak your approach when you can't get a hint as to what's working and what's not.

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Welcome, HisBoyElroy. I look forward to reading some of your stuff in SYW!

I just had a partial rejected (first 100pp). However, I'm not weeping and wailing because the agent did actually take the time to give me some very useful feedback. (Pacing and not getting on to the main focus of the story). As a consequence, I'll be going back and making some changes.

As for the market, bugger it...I'll just keep plugging away.

firedrake said:

I just had a partial rejected (first 100pp). However, I'm not weeping and wailing because the agent did actually take the time to give me some very useful feedback. (Pacing and not getting on to the main focus of the story). As a consequence, I'll be going back and making some changes.

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That's been my experience too. Part of the time at least. Definitely a higher percentage of useful feedback than with query rejections.

HisBoyElroy said:

Hard to tell who to send a historical war novel to.

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I think you'll have a much better chance of finding an agent if you resist the urge to defeat yourself before you even begin the process.

Selling fiction is tough, historical fiction - harder. Historical war fiction - harder yet. Historical war fiction by a first time novelist - oy! The truth is further you drill down, the more impossible it seems.

So don't drill down - open up.

First, make sure you polish and hone your novel. Make it as perfect as you can. Make certain your word count is reasonable (no more than 150K-ish). Write a compelling query and send it to any quality agent who accepts FICTION
(use agentquery.com)

Don't pidgeonhole your work - I would regularly adjust my query depending on who I was querying. My book was alternately historical fiction, an adventure story, a journey tale, a love story...

And don't pidgeonhole literary agents. I'd say 90% of the requests for partials I received were from agents who weren't specifically looking for historical fiction.

It is a lot of work, and yeah - there will be a host of agents who reject you out of hand for all of the reasons you stated in your original post. But all you need is the one who loves your premise>novel. You'll never find him/her if you don't try.

Keep in mind: It's your story and the quality of your writing that will get you an agent, not your genre.

Good luck!

funidream said:

Write a compelling query and send it to any quality agent who accepts FICTION
(use agentquery.com)

Don't pidgeonhole your work - I would regularly adjust my query depending on who I was querying. My book was alternately historical fiction, an adventure story, a journey tale, a love story...

And don't pidgeonhole literary agents. I'd say 90% of the requests for partials I received were from agents who weren't specifically looking for historical fiction.

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This is fantastic advice and very true. I think of the partials I've had requested, all but one were from agents who weren't looking for anything more specific than "fiction". With a previous novel, I did the same as you, adjusting what I called it. It was sometimes historical fiction, sometimes women's fiction, sometimes literary. You don't have to get too specific ("historical military fiction" or whatnot). Hopefully your query shows what type of story you are writing, without you having to worry about what to call it.

funidream's advice is excellent.

Here's another way to broaden your agent pool: Forget historical fiction for a moment, what were your favourite new books of the last five years? Which agents represent those authors? If you loved their books, and their agents loved their books, their agents might love yours too, as long as it is very, very good. When I was checking out my agent in Publisher's marketplace, I realized I was very interested in reading most of the books she sold, not just the HF.

There seems to be quite a bit of mil.historical fiction around in the UK at the moment. Enough that I've decided against writing the one I was going to write.
I think feedback is an issue. I haven't yet used the share your work thing here but finding a crit partner or a group of other like minded writers with whom you can swap mss is another way forward. Maybe there are some writing groups in your area?

Josh Getzler, formerly of Writers House, has just moved to Russell and Volkening and says on his PM page "I am particularly into foreign and historical thrillers and mysteries, so send me your ruthless doges and impious cardinals..."

http://www.publishersmarketplace.com/members/jgetzler/

Alexandra Machinist of the Linda Chester Agency says on her PM page "At the moment, I am particularly interested in page-turning and well-researched historical fiction"

http://www.publishersmarketplace.com/members/AMachinist/

Excellent leads, waylander.

Linda Chester hasn't yet replied to my query of last July.

Josh Getzler won't be settled in until November 16th. I'll be giving him a shot at it, too.

Let me point out that a historical novel just won the Booker Award. The Other Boleyn Girl did extremely well. I must admit they seem to sell better in the UK but won't try to market mine there because it's set in Scotland and there's too much anti-Scottish stuff right now in England, unfortunately. I don't think I could sell a novel in England in which Scots are the good guys, but for people who write in other areas that may be something to keep in mind.