Do you compliment other authors freely...

[La Reine]

..or is there some part of you that wonders why people can't see the shortcomings in their work that you can.

I find myself really critiquing the published works that I read. I think it makes me sound pompous to people who don't share my opinion. The question I really want to ask is:

Should I keep those negative and positive opinions about a work to myself? Or is it not wrong to say what I feel even when I seem like a disgruntled wannabe writer?

[PattiTheWicked]

I tend to be more critical of other authors' works than I used to be, simply because I've learned so much more about writing than I ever knew before.

I certainly think everyone's entitled to an opinion, and if they don't have one of their own, I'll happily give them mine. It's one thing to say, "Oh, Laurell K. Hamilton's books SUCK!" and another to say, "Well, I liked the Anita Blake series at first, but now it just seems like she's rehashing the same old plot lines amid a plethora of soft core porn scenes." If you can have an educated, or at least reasonable sounding opinion, I don't think there's anythiing wrong with saying so. You won't come off as pompous, but as someone who has formed an opinion based on information gleaned.

Likewise, if I really love a book, I make sure I tell people about that too. I think people like it when someone they know is A Writer tells them about Some Other Writer being really good.

[MadScientistMatt]

No, I don't. I do try to be tactful about what I dislike about an author's writing, but I also try not to pretend I like something I don't. I sometimes post in the Share Your Work forum, where you'll find a few examples of that.

[Jamesaritchie]

..or is there some part of you that wonders why people can't see the shortcomings in their work that you can.

I find myself really critiquing the published works that I read. I think it makes me sound pompous to people who don't share my opinion. The question I really want to ask is:

Should I keep those negative and positive opinions about a work to myself? Or is it not wrong to say what I feel even when I seem like a disgruntled wannabe writer?

There's nothing at all wrong with voiceing an opinion. But just because you find something you perceiove as a flaw does not mean it's a flaw to anyone else.

I tend to judge published writing on a very simple basis. . .did I or did I now enjoy reading it? If I did, great, give me another just like it. If I didn't, fine, I probably won't read that writer again. But it doesn't bother me at all when other people read and love him. It's good when people find books to read that they enjoy. There's no rule that says I have to enjoy them, as well, and certainly no rule that says I should tell other readers they shouldn't like the writer because I have problems with him. "I don't like his books" is more than enough.

[La Reine]

There's nothing at all wrong with voiceing an opinion. But just because you find something you perceiove as a flaw does not mean it's a flaw to anyone else.

I tend to judge published writing on a very simple basis. . .did I or did I now enjoy reading it? If I did, great, give me another just like it. If I didn't, fine, I probably won't read that writer again. But it doesn't bother me at all when other people read and love him. It's good when people find books to read that they enjoy. There's no rule that says I have to enjoy them, as well, and certainly no rule that says I should tell other readers they shouldn't like the writer because I have problems with him. "I don't like his books" is more than enough.

What happens if you're expected to like the author?

[PattiTheWicked]

What happens if you're expected to like the author?

Why would you be "expected" to like an author? Do you mean it's a writer who's really popular, but you can't stand their work and don't want people to think you're insane? Or someone that people assume you will like because you may have something in common with them, such as race, sexuality, or religion?

Or is it a writer who's a friend and you don't want to hurt their feelings? This is a whole 'nother kettle of fish.

[Birol]

When I read for enjoyment, I try to turn the critiquing part of my brain off. Sometimes it takes a few pages before I'm able to settle into the story, but it's worth it to be able to just relax with a book.

[reph]

When I read for enjoyment, I try to turn the critiquing part of my brain off.
I can't find the switch.

[azbikergirl]

For a long time, I couldn't turn off the editor. Lately I've read some really good books, though -- so good that the story distracted me from any perceived 'flaws.' Now and then, I'll notice something like superfluous adverbs or POV violations, but when I'm immersed, I tend to forget it quickly and move on.

When critiquing, I don't gush praise, but I do try [to remember] to point out the good parts. The problem is when I can't find any good parts. :(

[La Reine]

Why would you be "expected" to like an author? Do you mean it's a writer who's really popular, but you can't stand their work and don't want people to think you're insane? Or someone that people assume you will like because you may have something in common with them, such as race, sexuality, or religion?

Or is it a writer who's a friend and you don't want to hurt their feelings? This is a whole 'nother kettle of fish.

The second option. :)

[katdad]

My problem is with writers who get famous and then forget their audience, or who gain fame despite meodicre output.

But good writers? Certainly I compliment them, regardless of whether they write within my own genre.

[Jamesaritchie]

What happens if you're expected to like the author?

Well, give me an example. I can't think of a writer I was expected to like. There are writer friends thought I might like. Sometimes I have, sometimes not.

If you mean a friend's writing, same rules apply. I don't have to like it because a friend wrote it, and it doesn't have to be bad because I dislike it.

[Jamesaritchie]

My problem is with writers who get famous and then forget their audience, or who gain fame despite meodicre output.

But good writers? Certainly I compliment them, regardless of whether they write within my own genre.

I tend to believe that if a writer gains fame and wide sales, something about their writing is far from mediocre. They're doing something extremely right, and probably doing it far better than those who criticize them.

As for forgetting their audience, I don't even know what you mean by this?

[Cathy C]

I don't think there's anything wrong with telling a friend something like, "Wow! I really enjoyed your character, Gina. She was terrifically drawn. The plot wasn't really to my taste, but I'm sure others will really like it."


No harm, no foul, and she probably won't ask you to read the next one! ;)

Cathy

[maestrowork]

I enjoy other people's writings a lot. True, sometimes I'd think "I'd have done it differently" or "I thought the plot or characters could have been stronger..." But generally, I admire people who get their novels published, especially first-time authors. Sometimes I do think some known authors are cruising on their previous successes, and that leaves their recent works flat and uninspired...

[Nateskate]

Great question.

When I was growing up, one of my best friend's family owned a 4 star Italian Restaurant. They were renowned for their sauce, but I didn't like it. I liked to eat at their house, so I never said I didn't like it. The rest of the world couldn't be wrong, so I realized that I just developed a taste for what was probably an inferior sauce. Heck, I like trash.

I realize its the same with books. Writing style is very much a "salt" to taste thing where one person's "too sweet" is just right for someone else.

I love Tolkien, but at first I didn't like his writing style. The first time I looked at the Silmarillian, I was trudging through it like mud. But on a second glance, I thought it was brilliant.

So, I cut people slack when I look at their works, and try to see it for what it is. The greatest red sauce in the world probably wouldn't appeal to me as much as an everyman cheapo out of the bottle sauce because that's what I grew up eating. Awhile back I did a thread here comparing writing styles to either Frazier Crane or Martin Crane, and as far as sophistication, I'm more Martin than Frazier, but some people really dig the Frazier style. I'm just not sophisticated enough to always know good from bad writing.

[l.stormgaye]

Hellz no. I'm an aquarius.

[aruna]

My problem is with writers who get famous and then forget their audience, or who gain fame despite meodicre output.

But good writers? Certainly I compliment them, regardless of whether they write within my own genre.

Same here. When I read a really great writer, I swoon with joy!

As for wildly succesful authors, who write badly: I believe there are quite a few of the latter!

Commercial success has nothing whatsoever to do with quality of writing. Recently i read a book that became a bestseller through a lot of publishers hype, and it was so bad I was pacing the floor grinding my teeth in agony! (Just kidding!)

I swear that on ever other page this writer had people laughing hysterically, ohhing and aahing, their hands flying to their mouths, their jaws opening like a goldfish. One cliche after the other, plus pages of trite conversation. It's not that I just don't like the genre, the story, or whatever; the book is objectively badly written.


Also, many bestselling authors get lazy after a few books and their books stil sell, because they have a fan base who keep buying. They have tapped into aneed in their readers - that much is true. It doesn't mean they are good writers.

[Jamesaritchie]

Also, many bestselling authors get lazy after a few books and their books stil sell, because they have a fan base who keep buying. They have tapped into aneed in their readers - that much is true. It doesn't mean they are good writers.

No, but who cares? It does mean they know how to tell a story and build characters that millions of readers want. Only other writers and critics complain about the quality of writing.

I can't remember anyone ever asking me to show them some good writing, The cry is always "Tell me a good story."

I greatly prefer good writing to bad, and it's a lazy writer who doesn't try to improve the quality of his writing, or who makes excuses for writing poorly, or who says "I can still get published if I do it this way," but in the end, it isn't about the writing, it's about the story and the characters.

[aruna]

No, but who cares? It does mean they know how to tell a story and build characters that millions of readers want. Only other writers and critics complain about the quality of writing.

.

It's true that since I learned more about writing craft I've become far more critical than I used to be; while formerly I would just go along for the ride when I found a "good story", I've become more demanding; I think a good story, good characters, can be made even better by good writing, and it's a pity that not more care is taken in regards to quality. I just started a book by a bestselling author friend of mine, a book that I wanted to like as it sounds intersiting, and I like her; but after 20 pages I'm already bored. Considering the ingredients, the book could have been so much better!

You're right, the reading public is not discerning and doesn't care about the writing at all, or is very forgiving of cliches etc, as long as their attention is caught. But still, we should not be confusing the good sales that emerge from this as a sign of good quality; it's not.
Every night in the UK, millions of pople watch soap operas such as Coronation street and Eastenders. That doesn't make these good shows; just popular ones.

[brinkett]

No, but who cares? It does mean they know how to tell a story and build characters that millions of readers want. Only other writers and critics complain about the quality of writing.

Exactly. Readers don't care about well handled mid-scene POV shifts, for example. ;)


Every night in the UK, millions of pople watch soap operas such as Coronation street and Eastenders. That doesn't make these good shows; just popular ones.

As someone with about eighteen hours of Coronation Street on tape waiting to be watched, I take offense at the insinuation that it's not a good show! ;)

[aruna]

Exactly. Readers don't care about well handled mid-scene POV shifts, for example. ;)


As someone with about eighteen hours of Coronation Street on tape waiting to be watched, I take offense at the insinuation that it's not a good show! ;)

Why do you think I never watched any of these shows for more than 2 minutes, and even then, with only half my concentration! I once got addicted to a soap opera, in Germany, and I swore to myself, NEVER AGAIN!!!! They are very addictive:tongue

One thing that becoming a serious writer has spoiled for me is my ability to enjoy a crappily written book!

[brinkett]

One thing that becoming a serious writer has spoiled for me is my ability to enjoy a crappily written book!
I found myself in the same situation, but I've learned to turn off the critic when I read. I'm pleased to say that I'm now able to enjoy crappily written books as long as they have a decent storyline and decent characters.

What I'm still not able to do is enjoy well written books with a lousy story and lousy characters. Not that I consider that a problem...

[aruna]

What I'm still not able to do is enjoy well written books with a lousy story and lousy characters. Not that I consider that a problem...

I agree, that's much worse. - and more difficult to fix. The good storyteller who doesn't write well can learen to write well, and make those stories really sing - but a good writer who can't tell stories? forget it!

[stranger]

One thing that becoming a serious writer has spoiled for me is my ability to enjoy a crappily written book!

I try to avoid noticing the writing, unless I'm reading specifically for that reason.

Lately though I've my adverb radar on because of some of the discussions on AW and every time I see an adverb I try to figure out whether the sentence would be better without it, whether there was a better way of saying the same thing without the adverb. It distracts from my enjoyment of the story. And it's not the adverbs that are the problem but my overawareness of them. Never used to notice adverbs.

[Caty]

I agree that characters and plot have to grab my attention and make me care about them. No matter the purity of the prose if it's dry or pedantic I just switch off. The craft is in the storytelling. And yes Stranger, the adverb bug has got to me too terribly, terribly oops!

[Jamesaritchie]

Exactly. Readers don't care about well handled mid-scene POV shifts, for example. ;)


As someone with about eighteen hours of Coronation Street on tape waiting to be watched, I take offense at the insinuation that it's not a good show! ;)

Some do. A surprising number care very much about mid-shift POV. But this doesn't mean they won't enjoy the novel despite it. Readers let good storytellers slide with all sorts of bad habits. This doesn't mean they don't mind the bad wrting, it just means the writing is of much less importance than the story and characters.

Readers complain about POV shifts, adverbs, dialogue tags, and many other things, but they tend to complain to each other. If the story and characters are good, few readers throw out the novels with the complaints. Good story and good characters win out everytime, even when the writing is poor.

But the writer should sure as anything mind the bad writing.

[brinkett]

Readers complain about POV shifts, adverbs, dialogue tags, and many other things, but they tend to complain to each other.

I've never heard anyone complain about these things (except here). However, I don't know any writers. I do know a lot of avid readers, though. When readers b*tch about a book, it tends to be about things like plot holes, unrealistic plots, cardboard characters, boring, etc. I've never once had someone b*tch to me about the writing itself when we've discussed books we've read.


If the story and characters are good, few readers throw out the novels with the complaints. Good story and good characters win out everytime, even when the writing is poor.

I agree!

[stace001]

My problem is with writers who get famous and then forget their audience, or who gain fame despite meodicre output.

But good writers? Certainly I compliment them, regardless of whether they write within my own genre.

I do compliment authors writing i believe deserves it, however I agree with katdad. I've read quite a few books where i've thought "obviously that person was in the right place, talking to the right person, at the right time." because the book was mediocre and boring.
There is one author in particular, who shall remain nameless, who has just released another HUGELY marketed novel, made millions of dollars, and i find his/her writing lazy and uninspiring. Guess it can be 'who you know, not what you know.'