Fantasy storyline...how deep is too deep?

Pyrohawk · Oct 30, 2009

OK, so since most of my stories are fantasy I have been wondering. My main WIP is giving me headaches trying to get the story strait.

How deep a storyline is to deep? As in the magic that controls the action, the reason why something happens. Like when your wise old man "not that I have one" finally says well son, what happened is this.... How complex of an answer is acceptable and when is the answer so complex it blows the readers mind and they don't understand it and get bored because they are lost?

At what point is there to much fantasy and the reader says, ok, you're just making stuff up and adding more levels to make your story make sense.

Rhys Cordelle · Oct 30, 2009

If you're concerned that the reader might react that way, you've probably gone too far.

One way to get away with a very complex magic system might be that it's not well understood by the people who populate your world. So while you know all the ins and outs of a very complex system, your characters can only speculate, and so the reader isn't overloaded with explanation

Ruv Draba · Oct 30, 2009

Pyrohawk said:
How deep a storyline is to deep? As in the magic that controls the action, the reason why something happens.

Let the plot follow the motives. Make the motives personal and get them right. The fewer 'cosmic rules' you use, the more credible it will be. Historical legacies are fine too -- as long as they're tied to real characters.

So if motives and rationales are tied to characters, are the characters interesting? Complex? Conflicted? Well-differentiated? If they are, then any justification will be good entertainment.

Pyrohawk · Oct 30, 2009

Well, to be more specific. In my WIP, their is two alternate worlds that were once the same world. In the story the MC can travel between the worlds eventually. But I'm trying to explain how he does so the first time... The character dies and finds himself in the spirit realm sort of thing which has no seperation...doesn't matter what world your in when you die you still come here.

I just worry that I'm getting to many realms and deep magic paradox things and the reader may get confused. Although the character never goes the the spirit realm again after the first chapter.... if I could figure out how to eliminate the need for that scene it would certainly simplify things. Although its needed because later, the MC begins to suspect that both worlds are one in the same, or once were, and his look back at that experience is the justification for his suspicions.... yadda yadda... Then he learns if there is indeed a connection between the two worlds then maybe, just maybe......etc.

Liosse de Velishaf · Oct 30, 2009

How complex could this answer be? I have yet to find something in a fantasy story that has "blown my mind." Fantasy characters go to spirit realms all the time, and many fantasy stories have multiple worlds. Why don't you give us the explanation, and then we will know if you have gone too far?

Canotila · Oct 30, 2009

I'm with Liosse on this one.

Have you ever read Philip Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy? That, in my opinion, is one of the "deeper" books out there, in any genre, and on many different levels. To top it off, it got shoehorned into YA fantasy (something I will never understand because he would have been lynched had he published it 100 years ago). He managed to pull of infinite worlds including an afterlife realm everyone from all the different worlds goes to, along with a big old crazy explanation and it's awesome.

Vomaxx · Oct 30, 2009

Pyrohawk said:
My main WIP is giving me headaches trying to get the story strai[gh]t.

If the novel is starting to confuse you, it's a cinch it will confuse prospective readers. You should simplify it, I think.

Etola · Oct 30, 2009

I'm thinking that this is a question to ask beta readers. Write the story however it works in your head, give it to a few people to read and ask them what they think. A lot of what you're asking is going to be subjective (one person's "too complex my head exploded so I went to do something else instead" could be another person's "just right"), so multiple opinions will be more helpful to determine if there is a problem.

It may not be a book, but a good movie example of what I think is "too convoluted a mythology for the purposes of the story" is Lady in the Water. But a lot of that stems from how the mythology is handled.

Pyrohawk · Oct 30, 2009

Vomaxx said:
If the novel is starting to confuse you, it's a cinch it will confuse prospective readers. You should simplify it, I think.

I don't mean that the novel is confusing me.... That was an aside. I was just rambling about how getting it all togethor and figuring out how it works is giving me a headache.
I havn't "got" an explanation yet. I was just asking to see if it could be a complex explanation or if it had to be a simple one in most readers opinion.

Capital · Oct 30, 2009

This is probably too simple of an answer, and I bet you heard it before, but as Stephen King suggests, find your "perfect reader" and write for them!

If your "perfect reader" is confused... then you have a problem.

Fulk · Oct 30, 2009

Canotila said:
I'm with Liosse on this one.

Have you ever read Philip Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy? That, in my opinion, is one of the "deeper" books out there, in any genre, and on many different levels. To top it off, it got shoehorned into YA fantasy (something I will never understand because he would have been lynched had he published it 100 years ago). He managed to pull of infinite worlds including an afterlife realm everyone from all the different worlds goes to, along with a big old crazy explanation and it's awesome.

Seconded here. Usually when people bring up the idea of parallel worlds or universes, His Dark Materials is the first thing I think of.

If you do intend to keep the spirit realm element as part of the event that makes your character able to travel between worlds, I would consider revisiting it at some point. My feeling is that if it only appears once, the story can do without it. Settings, wherever they might be, should figure into the story more than once. Just my .02.

Pyrohawk · Oct 30, 2009

Pyrohawk said:
Although the character never goes the the spirit realm again after the first chapter.... if I could figure out how to eliminate the need for that scene it would certainly simplify things.

Like I said. If I can do away with it I will... But then again, just in the planning stage I only intend him to go there once, who know shwta will really happen when I start writing.

In the end I think I just need to put the details aside and start writing. BIC is my biggest issue because I am OCD and have a scientific mindset (was a chemistry major for a year for example). So I want extreme details and for everything to match up perfectly before I begin....I need to learn to go with the flow.

Fantasy storyline...how deep is too deep?

Pyrohawk

Aspiring author

Rhys Cordelle

Ruv Draba

Pyrohawk

Aspiring author

Liosse de Velishaf

Canotila

Sever your leg please.

Vomaxx

Etola

Still looking for stars...

Pyrohawk

Aspiring author

Capital

Doomthayer

Fulk

Occasional Contributer

Pyrohawk

Aspiring author