How important is magic to you?

Rhys Cordelle · Oct 27, 2009

The more I think about it, the less sure I am that magic is suitable for my WIP. All of my conceived characters were going to be magic users but I am now realising that their story could easily be told without the presence of magic. It may even be better without it, given that I want the existence or non existence of the gods to remain a mystery. Perhaps magic shall be better portrayed as superstitious ritual, with questionable results. How important is magic in your setting and what is its source?

Mr Flibble · Oct 27, 2009

Only as important as it is to the world and / or story

If you can write it without magic, it may well not be fantasy. ( maybe low fantasy...but it's like a romance - if the story holds up without the kissing and stuff, it ain't a romance

)

Mara · Oct 27, 2009

I think "magic" is integral to fantasy, but I use the word to define pretty much any sort of supernatural, fantasy ultra-tech, or similar stuff.

I think you can have a fantasy novel without magic, but only if the characters believe magic is real and that belief is very important in the novel.

Liosse de Velishaf · Oct 27, 2009

I write fantasy with and without magic. It would take more room than this post has to explain all the sources and importances.

If you can do a good job of presenting magic as superstitious and of unknown efficacy, I would love your book.

Death Wizard · Oct 27, 2009

Fantasy books without magic don't really cut it for me. And the books that go 250 pages between scenes with magic tend to annoy me. That said, any great story is compelling, magic or no.

Straka · Oct 27, 2009

I think it's a good to ask yourself if magic is necessary. Do it wrong and it can come of as cheesy, contrived, or too deus ex machina. Or a combination of all three.

If you decide the story is strong enough without it then by all means. If you want to put it in there, be sure there is a reason.

MAP · Oct 27, 2009

I don't think you need magic for a fantasy novel as long as you have a good reason why the story would not work in our reality. I would love a story where the characters believe in magic, but the reader is left wondering if the magic really worked. It would be a nice change from the magic being so powerful that it can do anything.

ejaycee · Oct 28, 2009

An example of fantasy without magic would be the Ranger's Apprentice series, by John Flanagan. I think fantasy can be done perfectly well without magic, though usually there are some supernatural elements to it.
I think it depends on your magic system, really. A well-done system can be a joy to read, but when it's done badly the whole thing can flop.

Sevvy · Oct 28, 2009

How important it is depends on the story I'm writing. One story I did recently was a strange man comes to town and his presence alone makes things magically fix themselves (creaky doors etc), though no one ever sees it happen. Another features a being that is not human, and there is no magic whatsoever. Both are fantasy, but it isn't the magic that made them so, it was the fantastical element in them.

A good genre to get a feel for what I mean by that is magical realism. It's not quite fantasy (hence why it's in a different genre) but when you're thinking of writing a fantasy story without what we would normally think of as magic and you want some ideas, turn to magical realism, and apply what you pick up there to your own story.

And just a note, I'm not saying magical realism is just a form of fantasy, these are two distinct genres but I feel that a fantasy writer can get a lot from reading the magical realists.

MattW · Oct 28, 2009

I have a story where there's no magic that the characters can explain, but supernatural things do happen.

Roger J Carlson · Oct 28, 2009

ejaycee said:
An example of fantasy without magic would be the Ranger's Apprentice series, by John Flanagan.

I'll second this. I was actually quite a long way into the first book before I realized there wasn't any magic.

Z0Marley · Oct 28, 2009

There doesn't need to be magic ^_~

DeleyanLee · Oct 28, 2009

If it's going to be a Fantasy, then I want something fantastic important in the story. Whether or not it's magic, I don't care, but I want something fantastic and unexplainable by modern understanding in it. Magic is just the easy fantastic element to put in, so it's the most common. It's not, by far, the only fantastic element one can use.

MattW · Oct 28, 2009

Liosse de Velishaf said:
I write fantasy with and without magic.

Me too.

If you can do a good job of presenting magic as superstitious and of unknown efficacy, I would love your book.

Oh - you said "good" job, right? Move along then, nothing to see here.

Wiskel · Oct 28, 2009

Lord of the Rings has very few scenes of magic use. Magic permeates the world but mostly it's the threat of power that drives the story, not the use of power.

I'm not a fan of discussions about whether something is fantasy or not. I got rather annoyed when people who proclaimed that they didn't like sci-fi tried to argue that Battlestar Galactica wasn't sci-fi instead of just admitting they liked it

Sometimes I'll read a book for the story, sometimes for the characters, sometimes for the writing or the humour and sometimes just because the world built around the story is so intriguing. How much magic is in the book isn't a factor. You'll either hook me or lose me on other things.

Craig

Imbroglio · Oct 28, 2009

As much as I really, REALLY like magic, I've been realizing ALMOST the same thing in book. Originally there were going to be loads of magic users, but the count has dropped to like two or three lately. Well, aside from the evil people, where almost all of them can use magic, but it's more like demonic spiritism, or whatever.

Yeah, I know, I have this all planned out really well.

xD

I much prefer to read and play games with a magic-centric action system as opposed to just weapons and shields. Like, for an example, I prefer Fire Emblem to Advance Wars, but that's actually for a couple different reasons. BLAST. MY BRAIN IS RETARDED.

MGraybosch · Oct 28, 2009

I use psionics instead.

Mr Flibble · Oct 28, 2009

I've just realised that I said 'without magic' when I meant 'without fantastic elements' lol

Are there other fantastic elements apart from the magic? Or is the magic all that separates your world from ours?

Although, to be fair, I prefer to have magic, in some form, even if it's actually science but seen by the protag as 'that weird magic stuff, which I am a scared of' a la Chronicles of Morgaine

There's plenty of people who love low fantasy though, but it does need some sort of fantastical element

MGraybosch · Oct 28, 2009

IdiotsRUs said:
Although, to be fair, I prefer to have magic, in some form, even if it's actually science but seen by the protag as 'that weird magic stuff, which I am a scared of' a la Chronicles of Morgaine

Yeah, Morgaine was a great application of Clarke's Third Law.

Imbroglio · Oct 28, 2009

Interesting. In my book there's a certain type of magic user that sort of... utilizies telekinesis to manipulate things around them. If you've ever seen Avatar: The Last Airbender, they can do those sort of things (except with the fire, I would think), but they can also treat their telekinesis like a weapon and... slice through stuff? Like it's a sword, or an axe.

Yup. I don't know if that's what you would consider psionics, that's just what popped into my head.

Dx

ETA; And naturally, I call them Telekinetics.

MGraybosch · Oct 28, 2009

Glorium said:
Yup. I don't know if that's what you would consider psionics, that's just what popped into my head.

You'd be surprised at what I lump into psionics -- like compressing air until it becomes gel or manipulating electromagnetic fields.

Imbroglio · Oct 28, 2009

Oh, wow. Air into gel? I never would have thought of that as a possible thing. Actually, I don't know why I said that, I write fantasy.

INTERESTING THOUGH.

MGraybosch · Oct 28, 2009

Glorium said:
Oh, wow. Air into gel? I never would have thought of that as a possible thing. Actually, I don't know why I said that, I write fantasy.

INTERESTING THOUGH.

Comes in handy for slowing down bullets, or for stopping people when they throw themselves at you.

Imbroglio · Oct 28, 2009

That's pretty cool. I'll keep that in mind if I ever decide to write somehing Sci-fi based.

Shadow_Ferret · Oct 28, 2009

So... if you tell a straight up character driven story in a made-up medieval setting without magic or elfs, that isn't fantasy?

What is it then?

How important is magic to you?

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