Using song titles for stories

defcon6000 · Oct 25, 2009

I have a really bad habit about this that I'm trying to break (rehab helps

). I noticed from the lyric permission thread that it's generally a bad idea to use a song lyrics in your story, so I was wondering if the same applied to song titles. Also, is there a difference when the song title is really specific to a song or if it's something general and can be written off as coincidence?

Kisatchie · Oct 25, 2009

Titles can't be copyrighted, so it seems it's okay to use them. Of course, I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not aware of any problems that may be lurking.

Freelancer · Oct 25, 2009

Titles can't be copyrighted

Titles can be trademarked. Also as the songs are not belonging to you, I wouldn't advise to do it. If in the story the song is highlighted in a bad perspective by some reason, even accidentally, or the original author is doesn't like the context that can cause problems.

Why don't you write your own lyrics? That's used to be fun.

blacbird · Oct 25, 2009

Mentioning song titles in your story isn't a legal problem. You can easily find any number of famous writers who regularly do this. Lyrics, as mentioned, are another matter entirely.

Now, from a writer's standpoint, there are a raft of non-legal pitfalls in doing this, not least of which can be turning off a reader. Don't assume, for instance, that everybody has the pop culture knowledge you have, or that references to such will necessarily accomplish anything useful.

caw

defcon6000 · Oct 25, 2009

Freelancer said:
Titles can be trademarked. Also as the songs are not belonging to you, I wouldn't advise to do it. If in the story the song is highlighted in a bad perspective by some reason, even accidentally, or the original author is doesn't like the context that can cause problems.

Why don't you write your own lyrics? That's used to be fun.

I meant song titles, not actual lyrics. See, I sometimes like to name my stories the same title of the song that inspired them...yeah, not the most creative. :tongue

I do sometimes make references to the lyrics or theme of song, but never actually use the lyrics themselves.

kaitie · Oct 25, 2009

Wasn't there a book that used a song title for each chapter? I swear there was, but now I can't for the life of me think of what it is.

Caitlin Black · Oct 25, 2009

I'd recommend writing your own songs, learning an instrument, becoming a failing musician, and then hacking away at your own lyrics and titles for what you really want to do, which is write.

If nothing else, it'll pass the time while you wait for responses to submissions.

(Just don't drink too much of the green beer!)

Skodobah · Oct 26, 2009

I mention two song titles in SWELL. One is mentioned not as a title at all, but as a quote from a character. The other is just in passing while the MC listens to a CD.

Julie

Lady Ice · Oct 26, 2009

Lyric-quoting is fine. Title-borrowing is a bit scabby.

lucidzfl · Oct 26, 2009

Lady Ice said:
Lyric-quoting is fine. Title-borrowing is a bit scabby.

Actually I believe its the exact opposite.

motormind · Oct 26, 2009

I wonder if I could use "Highway To Hell".

Lady Ice · Oct 26, 2009

lucidzfl said:
Actually I believe its the exact opposite.

When lyric quoting has context, it can be effective (although it kind of needs to be a well known song). Loads of famous books have titles which are quotes from poems or other places.

Just nicking the title looks scabby.

As for 'Highway to Hell'...sounds like a Point Horror novel.

lucidzfl · Oct 26, 2009

Lady Ice said:
When lyric quoting has context, it can be effective (although it kind of needs to be a well known song). Loads of famous books have titles which are quotes from poems or other places.

Just nicking the title looks scabby.

As for 'Highway to Hell'...sounds like a Point Horror novel.

I was referring to the legality of it.

Ellefire · Oct 26, 2009

For one nano-novel (that's never going to be published, so legality is not an issue) I swiped the title 'Everything Waits To Be noticed'. a song title by Art Garfunkel. The villain in the story is called...wait for it... Garfunkel.

It's a poor excuse of a joke but I liked it

Edited to add, the song title does actually reflect the novel, the clues do point to Garfunkel if you know what you are looking for.

motormind · Oct 26, 2009

Lady Ice said:
As for 'Highway to Hell'...sounds like a Point Horror novel.

I'm thinking of using it for my autobiography

blacbird · Oct 26, 2009

Lady Ice said:
Lyric-quoting is fine. Title-borrowing is a bit scabby.

Ditto what Lucid said. You got it exactly backwards. Think about Stephen King's Stand by Me as a famous example.

caw

Lady Ice · Oct 26, 2009

Well, it's not legal if you deliberately steal the title of a song because that...probably comes under plagiarism or something. Passing someone else's words off as your own.
However I believe it is legal to quote from lyrics, which is what I was referring to.

kangolNcurlz · Oct 26, 2009

Interesting discussion. I found this quote from a copyright and trademark attorney regarding trademarking song titles:

David Moser, a copyright and trademark attorney at Belmont University, said it's not common to trademark a song title. But with the industry's overall slump in CD sales, he thinks music creators are seeking merchandising opportunities to capitalize on a hit song.

...

One of the best-known examples of an artist capitalizing on his song titles is Jimmy Buffett, who sells everything from lawn furniture to cheeseburgers in more than a dozen of his Margaritaville and other restaurant-stores (a signature item, Cheeseburger in Paradise, also is a trademarked song).

It looks like song titles can be trademarked, but it's not usually done.

Source: http://www.wbir.com/news/watercooler/story.aspx?storyid=98369&catid=141

JeanneTGC · Oct 26, 2009

Lady Ice said:
Well, it's not legal if you deliberately steal the title of a song because that...probably comes under plagiarism or something. Passing someone else's words off as your own.
However I believe it is legal to quote from lyrics, which is what I was referring to.

It's absolutely not legal to quote song lyrics, ever, without permission (usually paid, and hefty payments at that), anywhere. Even if you credit the author.

Titles can't be copyrighted -- blacbird's example is a great one -- and you can use song titles in your book (best to make sure you credit the band, such as: "Enter Sandman", by Metallica, was playing on the radio while Jim chased Susan).

Using someone else's lyrics in your writing is a sure-fired way to say, a) I'm a NEWBIE! and I know nothing about this industry, and b) Sue me, sue me, sue me!

And, as someone else said, they're getting iffy about some titles. Steely Dan brought suit against the film company that produced "You, Me and Dupree", claiming it was too close to their song "Cousin Dupree". I don't believe they won, but if a band goes up against little ol' you or little ol' me, they have a great chance of winning simply because they can afford the legal fees. Do yourself a favor...don't go there.

blacbird · Oct 26, 2009

Lady Ice said:
When lyric quoting has context, it can be effective (although it kind of needs to be a well known song). Loads of famous books have titles which are quotes from poems or other places.

And that's perfectly legal. Quoting lyrics in a novel is legal only if the lyrics are in public domain, or if you have sought and received explicit permission to use them.

caw

blacbird · Oct 26, 2009

kangolNcurlz said:
I

It looks like song titles can be trademarked, but it's not usually done.

Trademarks are legally quite a different species from copyrights. In particular, trademarks are more limited in definition, tied to specific product expression. Jimmy Buffet's song title "Cheeseburgers in Paradise", I suspect, is trademarked only in reference to the chain of burger joints he has started with that name. I can't imagine that mentioning the title of that song in a novel transgresses any legal boundary.

caw

kangolNcurlz · Oct 26, 2009

@blackbird

I think it transcends into any aspect of commercialism, and not just his restaurants. According to the article, Buffet sued someone for using his trademarked song on merchandise.

Buffett also is known for filing lawsuits to enforce his trademark. In 2006 a Galveston, Texas, businessman, Robert Akard, spent a few hours in jail for contempt of court for not complying with a judge's injunction against the sale of merchandise that Buffett said was infringing on his trademark. The case was settled later that year.

Emphasis mine. Or, am I missing your point?

I know there's a difference between trademark and copyright. I don't think you copyright a song's title, you trademark it. Alas, I'm not a copyright/trademark lawyer, so I can't delve into the intricacies of whether or not you can use a trademarked song's title in your book. Though, I think it's best to err on the side of caution and consult a lawyer if the title you want to use is trademarked. But, most titles aren't trademarked, so I don't think it would be a problem.

Slushie · Oct 26, 2009

Just look at Hemingway's For Whom The Bell Tolls. He totally ripped off the Metallica song.

No wait, that's not right.....

Using song titles for stories

defcon6000

Kisatchie

I stop at railroad crossings

Freelancer

blacbird

defcon6000

kaitie

With great power comes

Caitlin Black

Wild one

Skodobah

I don't dream for nothing!

Lady Ice

Makes useful distinctions

lucidzfl

Back from the dead

motormind

Lady Ice

Makes useful distinctions

lucidzfl

Back from the dead

Ellefire

Citizen Of Planet Random

motormind

blacbird

Lady Ice

Makes useful distinctions

kangolNcurlz

JeanneTGC

I am Catwoman...and Gini Koch

blacbird

blacbird

kangolNcurlz

Slushie

Custom User Title

Using song titles for stories

I stop at railroad crossings

With great power comes

Wild one

I don't dream for nothing!

Makes useful distinctions

Back from the dead

Makes useful distinctions

Back from the dead

Citizen Of Planet Random

Makes useful distinctions

I *am* Catwoman...and Gini Koch

Custom User Title

I am Catwoman...and Gini Koch