Comma rules - I'm lost

I'm going to hazard to say none of them. I think the name after the address must be enclosed in commas because it's parenthetical to the sentence, thus:

Police office, John Jones, closed the door.

You don't read about General, Dwight Eisenhower - it's General Dwight Eisenhower.

Your own professional title and name before you retired -what was it? Bet it didn't have a comma in it, did it?

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95899

RJK said:

Which of the following are correct:

1. City Court Judge, Sam Smith closed the door.
2. City Court Judge Sam Smith closed the door. Correct - that is his whole title
3. Police officer, John Jones closed the door.
4. Police officer John Jones closed the door. Correct -that is his whole title
5. Detective, Bill Wilson closed the door.
6. Detective Bill Wilson closed the door. Correct -that is his whole title
7. War-widow, Clara Barton closed the door.
8. War-widow Clara Barton closed the door. Same reason

If some with commas are and some aren't, why? and vice-versa.

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Bufty said:

You don't read about General, Dwight Eisenhower - it's General Dwight Eisenhower.

Your own professional title and name before you retired -what was it? Bet it didn't have a comma in it, did it?

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95899

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Listen to Bufty; he's usually right. I was thinking about it as, not so much a title, but a statement of occupation. Like, "The policeman, Paul Barrett, walked into the room."

Goes to show what happens when you write out an answer while distracted.

It also matters whether it's a parenthetical.

The police officer, Sam Jones, closed the door. - The basic statement is The police officer closed the door, Sam Jones enclosed in commas is a parenthetical identifying which police officer. It can be left out and the sentence still reads correctly.

For me at least, in your examples above, if they had included the word "the" or "a" it would have changed them to parentheticals (with the exception of Clara Barton).

You have to watch on titles - some are definitely titles - General Eisenhower, Dr. Spock, etc. and some really aren't - in my opinion, Police Officer is not a title - it's an occupation, but if you said Officer Crowly, what do you think of this - then it's a title. War widow is definitely not a title.

You also have to think about direct address and a similar situation ...

I say, Mr. Somers, have you closed the door.

Hope that helps rather than confuses. Puma

Where would I be with my St. Martin's Handbook? Instinctively I know which is right in your examples--the even numbered ones--but St. Martin's tells me why, which I will share with you. Paraphrasing:

An appositive phrase is a noun or noun substitute (with its modifiers, if any) that renames the noun immediately proceeding it, including proper nouns. When the appositive phrase is not essential to identify the noun it follows but merely adds more information, it's a non-restrictive appositive which is set off with commas, like all non-restrictive phrases. If the appositive phrase is necessary to identify the noun, then no commas should be used.

Non-Restrictive Appositives Need Commas, since they only add information which is not needed to identify the noun they describe.
Mrs. Wildman, our district manager, calls the office a lot. This is non-restrictive because the narrator has only one district manager.
The first EMT to arrive at the scene, Joe Santiago, called for additional ambulances. This one's non-restrictive because only one person can arrive first.
The band's lone album, "Maryn and RJK Sing Calypso," sold poorly. (Go figure, huh?) If we have only one album, the title isn't necessary to identify it.

Restrictive Appositives Can't Be Set Off with Commas, since their content is needed to identify the noun they describe.
District Manager Wildman calls the office a lot. This is restrictive because there's more than one district manager. His/her name is needed to know which one calls a lot.
The EMT Joe Santiago called for additional ambulances. This one's restrictive because multiple EMTs were at the scene.
The band's worst album "Maryn and RJK Sing Calypso" sold poorly. If we have a worst, then we have more than one album. The title is necessary to identify it.

Maryn, who would not attempt calypso

Thanks, Maryn - good job! Puma

Maryn said:

The band's worst album "Maryn and RJK Sing Calypso" sold poorly. If we have a worst, then we have more than one album. The title is necessary to identify it.

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I would look at this last example again.

If it's the band's worst album, it's non restrictive -- the band may have many albums, but it only has one worst album -- therefore, it should read:

The band's worst album, "Maryn and RJK Sing Calypso," sold poorly.

As opposed to: The band's album "Maryn and RJK Sing Calypso," sold poorly if they have many albums, and

The band's album, "Maryn and RJK Sing Calypso," sold poorly if that is their only one.

4 and 6 are passable, but not in accordance with the old rules (Aren't all the the rules old?). Enclose parenthetic expressions between commas. Any expression that is inserted into a sentence as a phrase of further information, but not a part of the strict grammar of the sentence, should be treated as a paranthetic expression. When you choose to replace the parentheses by commas, do that. Don't replace only one of the two parentheses by a comma and simply remove the other.

Comma rules Im lost

It agree, this remarkable idea is necessary just by the way

Not much to add here, you're questions has been answered well by others. Instead of using the language "restrictive vs. non-restrictive clauses," it helped me to call them "essential vs. non-essential clauses."

In other words, if the clause is essential to the meaning of the whole sentence, then don't separate the clause out with commas. Any time a clause is contained within commas, it means you should be able to remove that clause from the sentence and the sentence still makes perfect sense and doesn't lose any meaning.

For example, let's say that Susan has two daughters: Beth and Ann. You would write, "Susan and her daughter Beth went shopping." There are no commas here because "Beth" is essential, because without "Beth," you wouldn't know which daughter is being spoken of. If she only had one daughter, then you would use commas. "Susan and her daughter, Beth, went shopping." Since Susan has only one daughter in this case, "Beth" is non-essential, because if you left it out of the sentence, you'd still know who was being referred to (again, because there is only one daughter).