Appeasing Islam

Ever since Komeini snuffed it, I'd say you're fairly safe. Especially given the recent best-selling wave of Athiest non-fiction.

Rushdie may have written 'The Satanic Verses' in ignorance of the consequences, but he should have known better. He took a risk, he paid the price, and now he's virtually a celebrity. Even Dan Brown and J K Rowling aren't awarded the exposure that he gets in the media.

I don't think that publishers are afraid, but be aware of the potential consequences.

RikkiKane said:

I don't know about the USA, but in the UK I think writers are discouraged to write about Islam in novels,

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Are they? Can't say I'd noticed.

and they are sometimes even threatened and attacked,

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Rushdie had a fatwa put on him. But that wasn't because of where he lived, or by British Islamics. It was issued by the Iranians. He could have lived in the Maldives or with Imuits, and they'd still have done it

I'm not aware of any other threats or attacks in the UK due to writing about Islam

My protagonist feels differently though. He feels its necessary to speak up and tell people about the 493 verses in the Koran that speak of Alla's hatred for non-believers and how we're all bound to eternal hell fire and how Muslims have a religious duty to spread their religion around the world using all means necessary (inclusing violence and murder).

My character feels its necessary to express his anger over Muslims saving their real outrage for times when a Western leader makes a public statement against veils and headscarves, or someone draws a Muhammad cartoon, whilst seem to caring little about the tens of thousands of people who lose their lives in the name of this religion each year.

My point is, are publishers and writers genereally afraid to publish this kind of stuff? I certainly think so.

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Well Rushdie's publishers obviously weren't afraid to take a risk.

However, depending on who you've written it ( long winded sermons probably won't go down well for instance, but belief moving the plot through conflict and inner growth of your protag might well do) it might be a harder sell.


You don't know till you try.

To me, it's one thing to write about Islam as realistically as you can and present all the different aspects of them (good, bad, indifferent) without being politically correct. It's another to write a story that focuses on how bad Islam is or the bad aspect of the religion. It would be no different than writing a story attacking Catholicism -- if you write one, you may have a tough time placing it. Then again, Dan Brown wrote some really scathing things about the Catholic church in his books -- still, he doesn't portray them all as evil people. So, even if you don't want to be politically correct, you still want to be "correct" when you deal with a religion.

whilst seem to caring little about the tens of thousands of people who lose their lives in the name of this religion each year.

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While this is a legit feeling of the protagonist, but it also seems biased because there are Muslims who care. So if you write it, you need to figure out why you're writing this -- are you trying to be political here and write something derogatory on Islam, or are you trying to present a thought-provoking story about the Islam faith.

I think your intention would determine if you have a market or if it will become too polarizing.

RikkiKane said:

I don't know about the USA, but in the UK I think writers are discouraged to write about Islam in novels, and they are sometimes even threatened and attacked, unless of course the writer wants to buy into the politically correct ploclomations that Islam is a religion of peace the writer is willing to make this clear in his/her writing.

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Discouraged by whom? The government? Here in America we believe in Freedom of Speech and Freedom of the Press.

And the majority of Muslims are peaceful (most are just ordinary people, just like most Christians). It's the radical Islamics that cause all the trouble and grab all the headlines.

A thread like this is going to test several strong=held beliefs about a writer’s freedom of expression. Of course, we’re never totally free anyway, most countries have laws about libel and spreading racial hatred, but the mere mention of Islam will send people racing down their rabbit holes with their fingers stuck in their ears, or the weirdoes will suddenly sit up and sharpen their pencils.

As an ordinary writer, I try and be as brave as possible, and I will tackle most things, but if I’m going to try and write about something like Islam, I would need to at least have read the Koran. I haven’t, so I leave it alone, but, by Christ, I’ve given my own religion some stick in the past.

LuckyH said:

Of course, we’re never totally free anyway, most countries have laws about libel and spreading racial hatred,

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That's the only 'discouragement' I can think of. Libel laws, obviously - and incitement of religious hatred, which is a crime here.

If you aren't saying 'Hate Islam!' - and I should certainly hope you aren't - it doesn't contravene any laws though, so I can't see why it'd be a problem. ( to most Muslims anyway. Who knows what the radicals will think? But that goes for all radicals, of all religions.)

Yes, if this writer wrote a non-fiction book about how awful islam is, or a fiction book thinly veiled as a political agenda against islam, I would consider it anti-islam propaganda.

If the author wrote a book about a protagonist (FICTION: remember everyone, the author and his/her characters are not the same--don't we bring this up all the time to protect ourselves from misunderstanding?) who felt this way, which is an accurate representation of some Americans, and explored this character in a fictional way, then I don't see why it couldn't be written.

On the one hand I've long been put off by religious conflict in fiction, because...well, it basically comes with built in conflict, like an ER room on television--it almost feels stock or easy. But that doesn't mean it can't be done well (for instance, I feel ER is a good show while Grey's Anatomy, a not so good show, relies on these simple parallel tricks between patients and characters to draw on melodrama).

Be aware that the point of view you're presenting is ordinary, though, not unique. There are many Americans who feel the way your character feels, and many who oppose the view. It's one of the basic western stances on Islam and has been very prevalent as an argument since the September 11 attacks.

So my advice would be to make your character unique, and most of all make him change somehow. A static character who simply expresses his views in a book is a dead giveaway that the author is trying to tell you some kind of moral (think "God's Debris" or "Ishmael"), and that's not what you want.

Your character should be thrust into a situation that alters him in some way or another. Because, well, I think that's one of the basic mechanics of most fiction.

So, I think you can do it. But just be aware of what your story is and how it presents itself.

EDIT: Just so all users know, I'm not presenting a view one way or the other here. My post is approaching this purely as a fiction book and how it would work thusly.

Certainly characters can hold extreme political views.
How are those extreme characters presented?
If statements of 'I can find six hundred and thirty lines in the Bible that prove ...' followed by rant de jour, scatter the work, unchallenged, this is going to make the book a wall-banger for most readers.

I don't think the publishing industry discourages writers from producing politically slanted fiction. But agents and publishers want books that sell. The market for books that present this particular political view may be quite robust.
Or not.
And if the market isn't there, the manuscript won't get bought.

Will publishers be scared off by an anti-Islamic slant in particular?

In the sense of fearful for their lives ... not so much, I think.
In the sense of dodging adverse public opinion ... quite a bit.

I'd say it's unlikely publishers will pass on an excellent book merely because it espouses an extreme political view. A mediocre book of this kind, however, might be considered more trouble than it's worth. No company wants to face intelligent, well-considered public annoyance over some piece of 'meh' writing.

And, speaking in terms of good writing . . .
Sam Goldwyn said, "If you want to send a message, call Western Union."

RikkiKane said:

I don't know about the USA, but in the UK I think writers are discouraged to write about Islam in novels, and they are sometimes even threatened and attacked, unless of course the writer wants to buy into the politically correct ploclomations that Islam is a religion of peace the writer is willing to make this clear in his/her writing.

My protagonist feels differently though. He feels its necessary to speak up and tell people about the 493 verses in the Koran that speak of Alla's hatred for non-believers and how we're all bound to eternal hell fire and how Muslims have a religious duty to spread their religion around the world using all means necessary (inclusing violence and murder).

My character feels its necessary to express his anger over Muslims saving their real outrage for times when a Western leader makes a public statement against veils and headscarves, or someone draws a Muhammad cartoon, whilst seem to caring little about the tens of thousands of people who lose their lives in the name of this religion each year.

My point is, are publishers and writers genereally afraid to publish this kind of stuff? I certainly think so.

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First of, you're trying to appease Muslims and not Islam.

Second, I have been an active member of the Muslim community and the many political organisations in the UK and know of no incident in which authors were or have been attacked about propogating Islam in a negative light in literature in the UK.

Thirdly, books of the sort that you are talking about have been written e.g. 'Maps for Lost Lovers' by Nadeem Aslam.

Fourthly, the fact that you are presenting a case that the 400 + so-called violent verses in the Quran arouses suspicions as to a political agenda.

Fifthly, Rushdie's book 'The Satanic Verses' were overhyped as being anti-Islamic by certain political forces in India and throughout the world, which led to widespread protests and unfortunate fatalities. The Iranians banned the book not because it was anti-Islamic but because it 'appeared' to be a slap in the face of the West. There's always a political agenda to these things.

And last but not least, and this is speaking for myself, it is very easy at times to identify when an author is trying to promote/force his or her agenda on to their readers. Do they think we're stupid? As if by placing their own hate-filled words in another persons mouth will excuse them from their own views. If you feel it then say but don't try to manipulate readers.

Another thing that I may add, Islamaphobia has been around for a long time as has hatred of the West. These issues are sensitive and have been handled very well so far in literature (from the books that I have read). Though Edward Said in his defining work 'Orientalism' would disagree with my statement given the historical legacy of western civilisation to distort and portray eastern civilisations as barbaric, backwards and inherently aggressive.

See how easy it is to use other peoples views to mask your own?

Does it have to be Islam? Isn't there other religions out there which have nutjobs who misread the text and bring their religion into a political sphere? Gee, it isn't as if there could possibly be Christian, Hindu or Bhuddist terrorists acting upon skewed views, could there? That would be ridiculous...

BigWords said:

Does it have to be Islam? Isn't there other religions out there which have nutjobs who misread the text and bring their religion into a political sphere? Gee, it isn't as if there could possibly be Christian, Hindu or Bhuddist terrorists acting upon skewed views, could there? That would be ridiculous...

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That's what I mean about religion having built-in tensions that extend beyond the text. Look at the tension already building here in this thread. And no one's even read a word of this book.

Are you going to let others tell you what you can or cannot write? Write the novel, take no notice of the politically correct brigade, including on here, after all how many novels and films have we seen about the Irish and the IRA? I doubt as if the writers of those were frightened of offending the 'other' side. If you can't sell your novel here, because everyone has to be so squeakily correct about everything these days, then try outside of England and the UK. Simple really.

RikkiKane said:

My point is, are publishers and writers genereally afraid to publish this kind of stuff? I certainly think so.

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Samantha's_Song said:

Are you going to let others tell you what you can or cannot write? Write the novel, take no notice of the politically correct brigade, including on here, after all how many novels and films have we seen about the Irish and the IRA? I doubt as if the writers of those were frightened of offending the 'other' side. If you can't sell your novel here, because everyone has to be so squeakily correct about everything these days, then try outside of England and the UK. Simple really.

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Of course you're right, but a writer also should take care of not presenting only one side, especially if it's religiously or politically charged, because that could easily become a propaganda piece. Or at the very least, coming off as stereotypical, like how all the Arabs in movies are terrorists.

I get the feeling that the "Islam Is Evil" trope may never be quashed. It's neither inherently good nor bad (same with any other religious text), and the negative associations with some (stupid) people who like to cause mayhem and terror are being fueled by extremely right-wing newspapers. Adding to the ignorance about a particular subset of individuals in a society is putting a lot of extra work on yourself.

Write the story, then think about the way you have approached the facts you are using. If it is needlessly inflammatory then you might want to rework some aspects to avoid allegations of any anti-Islamic sentiments.

I got fed up down my rabbit hole, and I’ve had a good look around, so here goes:

Would mainstream publishers take on a book expressing anti-Islamic views from a non-famous author? I don’t think so, there’s too much evidence all around that the Islamic religion demands respect from others, because of its own teachings, and will take action against those who don’t show that respect.

And what would be the point in publishing such a book? Religion doesn’t sell, sex does. As does adventure, romance, science fiction, vampire wars, and plain old detective stories.

We’ve been subjected to a long conflict between extremists on other side, if there is even such a thing as either side. Horror piled upon horror, injustice heaped on ignorance, and a long line of preachers, with or without beards, boring us silly.

I don’t want to read about it anymore, and I don’t want to think about it any more, give me the seductive rustle of nylon, or even the odd vampire sucking the blood out of the pale and helpless young girl, and let the preachers rot in their churches, mosques, or whatever.

(I’ll just add one little thing: the bravest man I’ve ever seen was Saddam when they placed that noose around his neck).

For myself, I don't necessarily think that a hateful character is portraying the author's feelings, it's just that, a character. As an example: I like football hooligan films, I don't watch football, I think it's boring, but I like the films and dare I say, the violence in them - I'm not a violent person though. In one of these films you are never going to get the characters to present the other sides team or fans in a good light, take Millwall and West Ham, but I don't ever think that the writers of these films are biased towards one side.
Btw, I wouldn't read a novel about this subject either, but some men do see their football teams in the same light as others see their religions. You can't please everyone, and bias in a film or novel wouldn't make me not want to see or read it.

As films go, I like the ones about the Vietnam war, they are mostly done from the American side and I think they were wrong, but that wouldn't stop me watching those films either.

maestrowork said:

Of course you're right, but a writer also should take care of not presenting only one side, especially if it's religiously or politically charged, because that could easily become a propaganda piece. Or at the very least, coming off as stereotypical, like how all the Arabs in movies are terrorists.

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Really? I don't ever buy erotic or romances, never will, and The holy blood and the holy grail is my most favourite book of all time.

I've also read many books on Hinduism, Buddhism and Zen Buddhism. Plus, Paramhansa Yogananda's, The autobiography of a Yogi. So religion sells to me.

LuckyH said:

Religion doesn’t sell, sex does.

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If religion didn't sell, Dan Brown wouldn't have made a fortune with the Da Vinci Code (because, quite honestly, the central treasure-hunt plot is a bit ho-hum without the religious intrigue).

I started a novel about islam in the USA and it was like radioactive even though it wasn't extreme and was based in fact. There wasn't an agent who would touch it. One admitted she didn't want a fatwa put on her. Another one basically called me islamophobic for even thinking such thoughts.

Which he nicked from The holy blood and the holy grail.

maestrowork said:

If religion didn't sell, Dan Brown wouldn't have made a fortune with the Da Vinci Code (because, quite honestly, the central treasure-hunt plot is a bit ho-hum without the religious intrigue).

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RikkiKane said:

He explains why the Jihadis and their detractors are both able to point fingers at the other, while confidently insisting that they are the true Muslims. He also explains why organizations that commit horrible atrocities in the name of Allah, such as Hamas and Hezbollah, receive moral and financial support from mainstream Muslims and Islamic charities.

That's about it.

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As long as you're being true to the character, and as long as you present it not as a "message" (as if you want people to believe that Muslims are evil and Islam's message is to destroy non-believers), I think you're good to go. But also, it depends on your character's arc. If he holds such anti-Islam beliefs and then prevails at the end with this belief intact, then you may have a problem convincing others that you, the writer, is not anti-Islam.


An example would be the movie Gran Torino. The main character is unapologetically racist. That's the way he was brought up and trained. The audience knows he's wrong but that's his character, but eventually, he learns to realize that his views are not true and he comes around. There are still bad people in the movie who are racial minorities, but there are also good people.

Now, is that a message movie? Probably, but it's done in such a way that it's true to the character. Not that I think you're writing a "learn the lesson" type of story, but it's something to think about when you tackle something such as anti-Islam sentiments. What is the story about?

If your story is good, it'll find a publisher. Even if it's not so good. The Jewel of Medina left me pretty cold, and I usually jump all over middle-eastern historicals.