Purple prose

Billycourty · Oct 14, 2009

I am not a writer educated in writing but self taught so it was on these forums i first heard the term purple prose badgered about.

I wikied this and found that:

The garden of Cyrus by Sir Tomas browne is considered (mocked) a perfect example of this form of writing.

This line in the selected wiki text caught my eye:

"making Cables of Cobwebs and Wildernesses of handsome Groves."

I found this a wonderful take on the more simple "mountains out of mole hills."

I wonder why is it so wrong for a writer to paint pictures with words.

Is it our cynical age or was this type of prose always thought, languid?

Your thoughts greatly appreciated.

Jay

Vomaxx · Oct 14, 2009

"Purple prose" is writing that calls attention to itself by ornate or flowery language. What is considered purple prose does vary with time; what one century considers appropriate another may label excessive. But simplicity has usually been considered preferable to unnecessary complexity. In 1728 Alexander Pope lampooned overwriting in Peri Bathous, or the Art of Sinking in Poetry, (which is well worth reading, as it's very funny), pointing out, for example, that to write "The wooden guardian of our privacy swift on its axle turn" is not better than writing "shut the door".

backslashbaby · Oct 14, 2009

In 1728 Alexander Pope lampooned overwriting in Peri Bathous, or the Art of Sinking in Poetry, (which is well worth reading, as it's very funny), pointing out, for example, that to write "The wooden guardian of our privacy swift on its axle turn" is not better than writing "shut the door".

Hee hee hee.

I'm a fan of certain purposeful purples, but it's nearly impossible for me to tell how it's different. It's one of those 'know it when you see it' things.

Mr Flibble · Oct 14, 2009

I think this thread will teach you all you need to know

Upshot is - comparing boobs to cheese is probably going to far

Any mention of 'The rosy fingers of dawn' should also be cut.

Other than that, one man's purple is another man's lyricism.

Billycourty · Oct 14, 2009

"The rosy finger's of dawn dipped into the cheesy breast's of the day with avid delight."

Lady Ice · Oct 14, 2009

Basically purple prose is literary masturbation.

Apsu · Oct 14, 2009

IdiotsRUs said:
Other than that, one man's purple is another man's lyricism.

I agree with this. Writing is an art, among other things, and I wouldn't enjoy it if my creativity was limited to the ideas in the stories without thought to presentation. That said, I personally think it gets purple when it's overdone and retracts from the enjoyment of the story, directing the attention from the story and putting it on the author. The writing should complement the story. With this post, for instance, hopefully I've presented something that wasn't previously presented (in this thread) in a way that is somehow unique to me. And hopefully you'll be interested in the content and not think I'm just trying to draw attention to myself.

Billycourty said:
Is it our cynical age or was this type of prose always thought, languid?

This is a nice example, I think. Your use of "languid" is somewhat outside the norm. I even looked it up to make sure I understood the word like I thought I did. But it's not purple; it's not overdone with unusually placed words. It's very readable, but it also had a little twist at the end.

(My understanding is that you weren't using "languid" to mean lacking energy or lazy, but rather showing little or no spirit or animation. In other words, it wasn't from lack of effort that the prose turned sour, but possibly from too much effort [or simply thesaurus digging] it strangled itself. Maybe I'm reading too much in, just trying to provide an example.)

maestrowork · Oct 14, 2009

Good "purple" is lyrical. A great wordsmith (such as Michael Chabon) could make purple look like a bouquet of spring flowers.

Bad "purple" is cheese.

PeterL · Oct 14, 2009

There's nothing wrong with a slight bit of purple prose, but slight means maybe one sentence in a chapter. That matter of the door explained beautifully why more is not good.

seun · Oct 14, 2009

maestrowork said:
Bad "purple" is cheese.

While bad cheese is green.

Or have I missed the point?

maestrowork · Oct 14, 2009

seun said:
While bad cheese is green.

Or have I missed the point?

Obviously you haven't let them sit long enough.

kidcharlemagne · Oct 14, 2009

Check out that paragraph competition on Nathan Bransford's site. Some paragraphs have prose that is consciously flowery and in my mind, sticks out like a sore thumb, but there are other instances where I would say the prose is literary and even though it is lyrical it has a different effect. It is not conscious but is still full of imagery and emotion. It draws you in without drawing attention to itself.

Mr Flibble · Oct 14, 2009

maestrowork said:
Good "purple" is lyrical. A great wordsmith (such as Michael Chabon) could make purple look like a bouquet of spring flowers.

Bad "purple" is cheese.

Cheesy boobs?

Phaeal · Oct 14, 2009

Lavender prose is all right. Or even a nice pale amethyst, unless it's the heroine's eyes.

blacbird · Oct 14, 2009

maestrowork said:
Bad "purple" is cheese.

When your cheese gets purple, you'll really understand.

caw

C.M.C. · Oct 14, 2009

I have a theory that most of the people who abhor purple prose are jealous that they aren't talented enough to create it.

What I really think the problem is lies with the fact that most readers, and writers, don't like to put in much effort. If something takes thought to understand as it is being read, it must be terrible. We adore the simplistic writers for being able to tell us exactly what happened in the story with no filler, but all of that "filler" is called writing. Writing shouldn't be a crime for writers.

maestrowork · Oct 14, 2009

Billycourty said:
"making Cables of Cobwebs and Wildernesses of handsome Groves."

I found this a wonderful take on the more simple "mountains out of mole hills."

But is it, really?

There's nothing wrong with turning a cliched phrase into something creative that says the same thing. And there's nothing to paint pictures with words. But let's examine this one.

The phrase "mountain into mole hill" is direct and easy to understand. Also, the comparison is apt: making something small (like a mole hill) into something much, much bigger (a mountain). The comparison is between apple and REALLY big apple.

Now, examine the second phrase, and we can see the forced analogy and comparison. Cables and cobwebs are two different categories of things. The comparison between groves and wilderness is more apt. Still, it does not relate to the meaning of "blowing things out of PROPORTION" -- and proportion is the key word here. Thus, the phrase is forced, contrived and irrelevant. It's also wordy and unnecessarily ornate.

Now, I could be fine with "make cesspool out of a puddle."

maestrowork · Oct 14, 2009

C.M.C. said:
Writing shouldn't be a crime for writers.

It's not a crime unless the writing is obnoxiously bad.

That's where bad purple prose falls.

KTC · Oct 14, 2009

I was self-taught too, Billy. I learned tons here at AW that I never even heard of before my arrival.

Billycourty · Oct 14, 2009

To Apsu:

It's funny because i used languid because i needed that word to carry what i wanted to say.

But it's thought out of the norm. I saw someone say that "granules" looking like thesaurus surfing too.

What a strange world we live in where it's uncommon for a writer to be filled with many words and a desire to place them in appropriate (and not so appropriate places.)

I places words in my sentences after i weigh them and make sure they balance each other. Rhythm is an important part of writing too.

I loved what you posted by the way thankyou.

Also C.MC great post.

Jay

KTC · Oct 14, 2009

Billycourty said:
To Apsu:

It's funny because i used languid because i needed that word to carry what i wanted to say.

But it's thought out of the norm. I saw someone say that "granules" looking like thesaurus surfing too.

What a strange world we live in where it's uncommon for a writer to be filled with many words and a desire to place them in appropriate (and not so appropriate places.)

I places words in my sentences after i weigh them and make sure they balance each other. Rhythm is an important part of writing too.

I loved what you posted by the way thankyou.

Also C.MC great post.

Jay

I too look to have cadence and rhythm in my prose. I obsess over it, actually. But the word choice really is not what purple prose is about...it's more about the bloatedness.

Billycourty · Oct 14, 2009

To maestrowork:

But if you make cables out of spiderwebs you are forcing them to be something they are not and were never meant to be. I.e solid and supportive.

Mole hills that are forced to be mountains
Spider webs forced to be cables.

Writers can be oh so cruel!

Jay

Bluegate · Oct 14, 2009

C.M.C. said:
Writing shouldn't be a crime for writers.

Bravo! I am so tired of feeling like I have to have a special permit to use an adjective or that I should be writing a newspaper article instead of a novel. I certainly understand that a writer can smother their work with excess but it often seems as though we have gone much to far in the opposite direction. I am writing a novel not a film script or grocery list. There is going to be an occasional piece of purple cheese in there.

I actually do want a writer to make me think about what I am reading. I expect a writer to perform the art of showing me a different way to see and experience the world. When I read I want to be moved somehow... and that just might require an adjective or two. Gasp!

Billycourty · Oct 14, 2009

Yes you are absolutely right purple prose is not about rythm. but it isnt just about egos either.

A writer see's a vision and they want to share that vision. It's not a vision of words but pictures. I think the true purple prose. The honest purple prose is the craft of a master crafter who has a lot of colors to weave.

Writer's choose words for a reasona nd i love to see that in purple prose. It's not about ego it's about art.

Jay

maestrowork · Oct 14, 2009

Billycourty said:
To maestrowork:

But if you make cables out of spiderwebs you are forcing them to be something they are not and were never meant to be. I.e solid and supportive.

Mole hills that are forced to be mountains
Spider webs forced to be cables.

Writers can be oh so cruel!

Jay

hill and mountain are a degree of proportion. The phrase is about blowing things out of proportion. Not turning sand into glass or Britney Spears into a singer.

How about "make $3000 blond wigs out of cobwebs"? I think that sounds better.

Purple prose

~~~~*~~~~

They've been very bad, Mr Flibble

Makes useful distinctions

Orange

Fear the Death Ray

Horror Man

Fear the Death Ray

They've been very bad, Mr Flibble

Whatever I did, I didn't do it.

Archetype

Fear the Death Ray

Fear the Death Ray

Stand in the Place Where You Live

Stand in the Place Where You Live

Clearly has too much time on hand.

Fear the Death Ray

*