Mentioning MFA acceptance

Epiphany · Oct 13, 2009

I really tried to find a thread on here that addressed this question, but I didn't see one.

I'm planning on having edits and query letter finished for my newest novel sometime at the beginning of next year, which is when I'll want to start querying. This will be an interesting situation for me, being that I will not have graduated yet from my undergrad program but will know which MFA programs I have been accepted into.

My question is this: Is it ok to address that I WILL be graduating in spring with my B.A. in English and HAVE been accepted into a certain school for my masters in a query? Do agents not care unless I have completed my degrees, or will the fact that I'm pursuing an MFA and have been accepted into a certain program spark their interest?

myrmidon · Oct 13, 2009

I think probably some agents don't care and some do, so it's a bit of a crap shoot. A good friend of mine was was submitting her query to agents after she had been accepted to the MFA writing program at a fantastic school (but had not started yet) and she put it in her query. She not only got an agent but her novel is on submission now. Did it matter to the agent? I have no idea...but it certainly doesn't seem to have hurt.

Good luck - with your edits, query, and your MFA - sounds like you have an awesome year ahead.

Epiphany · Oct 13, 2009

Thank you!

What school did she get accepted into?

Danthia · Oct 14, 2009

If you want to put it in, feel free, but odds are it won't make much difference either way. It's the book that matters. If they love the query and think they can sell that idea they'll ask for more. If not, the MFA won't matter.

Epiphany · Oct 14, 2009

Danthia said:
If you want to put it in, feel free, but odds are it won't make much difference either way. It's the book that matters. If they love the query and think they can sell that idea they'll ask for more. If not, the MFA won't matter.

Yeah, I figured. Especially if you are told to include sample pages then credentials definitely don't matter. But I figure, since I'm doing the MFA anyway, why not just mention it for kicks and giggles?

stevewed · Oct 14, 2009

I have an MFA and no one cared, not even my agent who has her own MFA.

Be aware, though, that some agents have been quite unhappy with the "MFA novel" they so often see. So I could see making a big deal out of it might be a problem.

"After three semesters at the Tennessee State MFA program, I have managed to incorporate all my classmates' suggestions." FAIL

Being accepted into an MFA program is a nice accomplishment, but I don't know that it will be any help to having someone read your first 50 pages. In fact, some agents might be opposed to the "MFA style" and disregard your query. Of course, you might not want to work with those agents, anyway.

Epiphany · Oct 14, 2009

Yeah. I wonder if it's the same in mentioning an MFA for your query about your commercial novel. Hmm...

Well, I'll mention it, and compare the results to my previous query results where I listed no credentials. We'll see.

Ctairo · Oct 17, 2009

Epiphany, I'm going to mention something that keeps popping up on agent blogs and in tweets: professionalism. While I understand your eagerness to throw as many accomplishments into the mix as possible, in the eyes of the publishing world, in the realm of business, acceptance into a graduate program has zero value and might well brand you as an "amateur."

Consider the best way to represent your work, what you've done-- not what you may do (i.e., graduate)--and how you'd like to be perceived.

myrmidon · Oct 17, 2009

Ctairo: Do you really think so? I guess I feel like as long as it's just one line in the query it's not unprofessional - certainly not to the degree that it would actively hurt the query.

And depending on the program, even being accepted to a graduate studies writing program can in and of itself be quite an accomplishment and have some actual value in demonstrating a level of craftsmanship that is getting the writer noticed - intense writing samples, multiple letters of recommendation, and stiff competition. I think that counts for something. Is it the same as graduating from said program? No. But especially depending on the level of difficulty, getting in can be akin to getting a short fiction piece published in a literary magazine etc.

Epiphany · Oct 18, 2009

Ctairo said:
Epiphany, I'm going to mention something that keeps popping up on agent blogs and in tweets: professionalism. While I understand your eagerness to throw as many accomplishments into the mix as possible, in the eyes of the publishing world, in the realm of business, acceptance into a graduate program has zero value and might well brand you as an "amateur."

Consider the best way to represent your work, what you've done-- not what you may do (i.e., graduate)--and how you'd like to be perceived.

Hmm... I just find that hard to believe. I can't see how adding "I've recently been accepted into the MFA program at Antioch and will be attending in the fall" (or something similar) would go as far as HURTING me. It might not help me, but I don't see how the mention is unprofessional.

Am I wrong to assume this?

MFA programs grant you acceptance not through your GPA, but through your work samples. Obviously, agents know this. Therefore, by mentioning my acceptance in a single sentence, I am stating that I caught the eyes of whoever is doing the admissions at the college, and they usually have been teaching creative writing for several years and have been published. Again, this MIGHT not help me, but I can't see how it could brand me as someone who has no idea what the hell they are doing.

Ctairo · Oct 19, 2009

Whoa there....

Epiphany said:
Hmm... I just find that hard to believe. I can't see how adding "I've recently been accepted into the MFA program at Antioch and will be attending in the fall" (or something similar) would go as far as HURTING me. It might not help me, but I don't see how the mention is unprofessional.

Am I wrong to assume this?

MFA programs grant you acceptance not through your GPA, but through your work samples. Obviously, agents know this. Therefore, by mentioning my acceptance in a single sentence, I am stating that I caught the eyes of whoever is doing the admissions at the college, and they usually have been teaching creative writing for several years and have been published. Again, this MIGHT not help me, but I can't see how it could brand me as someone who has no idea what the hell they are doing.

Hmm, I don't think I said anything about HURTING you. I just tossed out another consideration. You've made up your mind to include it, so perhaps I shouldn't have posted a thought that could be interpreted as a DON'T DO IT!!! (which frankly, I would have said if I thought it was an OMGNO! mistake). Like the MFA itself, it's possible agents may think it's nifty, others, not so much. Do you want to gamble?

Just... heed the words and do as you will.

Your passion is admirable. But being an "amateur" and being someone "who has no idea of what they the hell they are doing" goes far deeper than your ability to put words on the page. Given your interest in being a published author, I'm shocked you don't realize this.

Ctairo · Oct 19, 2009

myrmidon said:
Ctairo: Do you really think so? I guess I feel like as long as it's just one line in the query it's not unprofessional - certainly not to the degree that it would actively hurt the query.

And depending on the program, even being accepted to a graduate studies writing program can in and of itself be quite an accomplishment and have some actual value in demonstrating a level of craftsmanship that is getting the writer noticed - intense writing samples, multiple letters of recommendation, and stiff competition. I think that counts for something. Is it the same as graduating from said program? No. But especially depending on the level of difficulty, getting in can be akin to getting a short fiction piece published in a literary magazine etc.

I didn't say the mention would hurt, but if doesn't help, perhaps what's the point? It's not like being published--being published is like being published. In business, in the real world, the only value is that which has value. Conventional wisdom says a person who wants to start a career should represent themselves as someone who not only writes and (let's assume) writes well but also understands business. Talking about school accomplishments--particularly when there are factors involved beyond a student's writing ability (e.g., the pool of applicants)--says you don't.

Epiphany · Oct 19, 2009

Thank you everyone for your comments.

I think I'll ask the question on one of the specific agent threads as well.

myrmidon · Oct 19, 2009

Ctairo said:
I didn't say the mention would hurt, but if doesn't help, perhaps what's the point? It's not like being published--being published is like being published. In business, in the real world, the only value is that which has value. Conventional wisdom says a person who wants to start a career should represent themselves as someone who not only writes and (let's assume) writes well but also understands business. Talking about school accomplishments--particularly when there are factors involved beyond a student's writing ability (e.g., the pool of applicants)--says you don't.

I guess I just disagree. My point was, it might or might not help dependent upon how a particular agent feels about MFA degrees (etc) but that I don't think it's possible for it to actively hurt. And I don't think it's unprofessional or marks someone as an amateur that doesn't know about the business. I think there's a pretty big difference between being unprofessional and being business savvy. They're both great things, but they don't have to go hand in hand. A person can be a bit of a rookie and still know how to be polite and professional.

I also still take issue with the idea that getting into a good MFA program isn't remotely equatable with being published in a literary magazine (etc). The same factors apply in both scenarios - including the pool of applicants factor. It's true that published is published bottom line, but we're all the time on here talking about including what is relevant in a query, and I see acceptance to a competitive MFA program as relevant to a writer's possible potential so long as it is not inflated to be more than it is.

thothguard51 · Oct 19, 2009

My first agent has a MFA, though I am not sure from what college.

When talking to her about going back to school and applying for an MFA, she advised me not to, unless I just wanted it for myself. Reason, MFA's are no gaurantee of success as a writer. As a matter of fact, MFA's make a snob out of most grads and hurts their writing careers because of false expectations. She did say that if I wanted to go into the publishing, movie, or entertainment industry, then the MFA preps you more because of the academic back ground of books and movies, and such.

Well, its what she said.

Nick Anthony

Ctairo · Oct 19, 2009

myrmidon said:
I guess I just disagree. My point was, it might or might not help dependent upon how a particular agent feels about MFA degrees (etc) but that I don't think it's possible for it to actively hurt. And I don't think it's unprofessional or marks someone as an amateur that doesn't know about the business. I think there's a pretty big difference between being unprofessional and being business savvy. They're both great things, but they don't have to go hand in hand. A person can be a bit of a rookie and still know how to be polite and professional.

I also still take issue with the idea that getting into a good MFA program isn't remotely equatable with being published in a literary magazine (etc). The same factors apply in both scenarios - including the pool of applicants factor. It's true that published is published bottom line, but we're all the time on here talking about including what is relevant in a query, and I see acceptance to a competitive MFA program as relevant to a writer's possible potential so long as it is not inflated to be more than it is.

You're welcome to disagree. I'm not sure what you're basing the disagreement on other than your opinion though since you haven't clarified. Restating what you've said isn't helpful.

Do you know for a fact that something with no dollar value attached is equal to something with dollar value attached? If so, please share the information regarding the how's and why's beyond you equating them. I'm open to being educated.

Otherwise, I've made my point and you've made yours. Epiphany will do as she deems fit. It's her career and ultimately, her choice.

Epiphany · Oct 20, 2009

thothguard51 said:
My first agent has a MFA, though I am not sure from what college.

When talking to her about going back to school and applying for an MFA, she advised me not to, unless I just wanted it for myself. Reason, MFA's are no gaurantee of success as a writer. As a matter of fact, MFA's make a snob out of most grads and hurts their writing careers because of false expectations. She did say that if I wanted to go into the publishing, movie, or entertainment industry, then the MFA preps you more because of the academic back ground of books and movies, and such.

Well, its what she said.

Nick Anthony

Yeah. I'm actually getting mine because I want to teach, not because it will help get me published. But I figure if I'm in a program, why not mention it, yah know?

Epiphany · Dec 5, 2009

For anyone left wondering.

Nathan Bransford's Response:
http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4334852&postcount=1280

Jennifer Laughran's Response:
http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4320446&postcount=811

Kathleen42 · Dec 5, 2009

Epiphany said:
For anyone left wondering.

Nathan Bransford's Response:
http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4334852&postcount=1280

Jennifer Laughran's Response:
http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4320446&postcount=811

I believe a few of the agents in Making the Perfect Pitch also mentioned that they like to see authors with MFAs.

I don't think you have to have an MFA to get published, but I see no harm (and possibly some benefit) in a brief mention.

You're a sharp cookie and your query will show that, regardless of whether or not you mention the MFA.

Jamesaritchie · Dec 5, 2009

I've known agents and editors who always move an M.F.A. mention right to the top of their attention pile, and who instruct assistants to automatically pass any such queries along.

An M.F.A. will not sell a bad novel, but it's still a very good thing, and definitely gives you an edge over a writer who can list no such accomplishments.

An agent who looks at such an accomplishment in a negative light is an agent you do not want.

Albannach · Dec 5, 2009

thothguard51 said:
My first agent has a MFA, though I am not sure from what college.

When talking to her about going back to school and applying for an MFA, she advised me not to, unless I just wanted it for myself. Reason, MFA's are no gaurantee of success as a writer. As a matter of fact, MFA's make a snob out of most grads and hurts their writing careers because of false expectations. She did say that if I wanted to go into the publishing, movie, or entertainment industry, then the MFA preps you more because of the academic back ground of books and movies, and such.

Well, its what she said.

Nick Anthony

I suspect there is NOTHING that "guarantees" success. I've known more than one MFA graduate who was an utter snob but that has to do with being an academic, to be frank. If you enjoy academics, then an MFA is not a bad thing to have. If you just want to write, I'm not sure it's the best way to spend your time and a rather substantial amount of money.

She was not advising AGAINST getting an MFA, it seems to me, so much as making a rather good point. That's a lot of work and money unless you really want or need that piece of paper telling you that you're smart. It will get you a look by an agent but so will a pro sale for which someone will give YOU money instead of the other way around.

Bookewyrme · Dec 6, 2009

I just have to poke in with my 2c.

I don't have an MFA, but I am a graduate student, and I have to say, graduate work only makes you a snob if you were predisposed that way already. Secondly, any graduate work gives you a number of skills useful in any realm, whether its related to the program or not. For instance, an appreciation of deadlines is built in (at the Masters and above level if you miss the deadline for anything besides your dissertation, thats just too bad). There's also time management, work ethic, perhaps even a wider knowledge base for your work (not always the case of course, since life will often give you the knowledge base better).

It seems that a query letter is much like an abbreviated CV, and you certainly ought to mention any important and pertinent achievements.

*ducks back out again*

veinglory · Dec 6, 2009

If it is a good MFA that acceptance strikes me as well worth mentioning to an agent. It speaks to your writing ability.

Mentioning MFA acceptance

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