Interesting observation on POV?

cscarlet · Oct 13, 2009

I was reading a blog, and someone brought up that no YA novel ever (ever) has a POV included (at any stage) from an adult. This was the excerpt:

There's one other detail that's used as a rule of thumb for YA novels: if at any time, a POV in the story is from an adult... it's not YA, which focuses exclusively on the teenager-protag's POV. There are no adult perspectives except through dialogue; adults certainly don't get time in the scenic spotlight. The goal is to create the teenage-protag as the center of reality, reflecting the readers' own beliefs that they're pretty much It. Adults would intrude on this, y'know, introduce a reality check. Can't have that.

I found that interesting, because I'd never thought about it. I tried to think of a book which had multiple POV's, one of which perhaps being an adult... and I can't think of one.

So this has got me thinking. I mean, I have three short chapters (which I was considring cutting anyway) in my WIP where my Antagonist is plotting, and they are written in his POV. Younguns who have read these parts do like them because he's a doctor and "he does the gross stuff." So now I'm just curious to know: If I chose (for some odd reason) to keep those chapters in, even if the voice wa "good" for my teenage protagonist, and the pacing was fast enough, and the length was spot on, etc. etc... does in fact the inclusion of an adults' POV automatically "bump" you from the YA genre, regardless?

I just know there have been tons of posts on voice/pacing to distinguish between Adult, YA, and MG, so I thought this was an interesting little twist.

What are your thoughts on the subject? Have you heard this as a rule of thumb before?

BriMaresh · Oct 13, 2009

They're not strictly correct, as far as I am aware. Fire by Kristin Cashore starts in the head of a grown-up. The Circle of Magic Quartet by Tamora Pierce strays into Niko's perspective a few times, as far as I remember. And those are just two examples from the stack of four books I have sitting next to me.

In the writing world, there are an awful lot of guidelines, but no real rules. Head-hopping is always something you have to think about before you do it, but if you have a reason and believe it is integral to the book, don't let a little "rule" like that keep you from it. If the story is YA, I doubt a few scenes touching in with an adult will change that.

bethany · Oct 13, 2009

Smack has some scenes from an adult pov... and there are others. It's just not that common.

Kitty Pryde · Oct 13, 2009

Yep, and most of James A Owen's YA fantasy are from an adult POV too. It's probably more accurate to say that almost no YA novel ever has an adult POV.

Don't the Gossip Girl novels (which have an infuriating head-hopping close 3rd POV) sometimes drop into the POVs of the parents of the MCs too, because their lives are as delightfully scandalous and shallow as the teens'?

eyeblink · Oct 13, 2009

Julie Bertagna's The Opposite of Chocolate has some scenes from adult viewpoints. It's the story of a fourteen-year-old girl who falls pregnant, and some scenes are told from the POV of her mother, the parish priest and nun who try to persuade the girl not to have an abortion, and so on. Having said that, the great majority of the novel is told from the POV of the girl, or the boy she befriends (who isn't the father but has some issues of his own).

BlackBriar · Oct 13, 2009

My YA 'books read' list is a bit thin (correcting that), but I have 2 short PoVs in the heads of adults. They were needed to show what was going on outside of my MC's situation. I don't think it effects the flow of the story at all and that it can still be considered YA.

Also, HP was YA right? It had adult PoVs. Of course it could've been adult urban fantasy near the end...

cscarlet · Oct 13, 2009

Thanks for clarifying this everyone! I'm a slow reader (upstid lysdexia), so I haven't read nearly as many YA books as I would have liked to by now. I'll have to look up some of the ones you've mentioned and read through to see how it's done well. Thanks!!!

(Dice, I think HP is MG... though the point should be the same for eac, regardless.)

Tuuli · Oct 13, 2009

The Inkheart series by Cornelia Funke slips into different adult POV from time to time. It's mostly late MG, but the last one (Inkdeath) was also considered YA.

Amynta · Oct 13, 2009

CupofDice said:
Also, HP was YA right? It had adult PoVs. Of course it could've been adult urban fantasy near the end...

Yup. First two chapters - The Other Minister and Spinner's End - of Half-Blood Prince are the first to come to mind.

And, of course there are the immortal characters in YA novels - not all of them are teenagers even in appearance, and they still have the occasional POV.

timewaster · Oct 14, 2009

I think it is true that it is more usual to have most of a book written with a teen as focalising character but it is not always true and I have a few adult viewpoints in mine (There are also a small number of children's books where the main character is not a child at all.)

eyeblink · Oct 14, 2009

Oh I forgot a big one - Mal Peet's Tamar. While about a third of it is narrated in first person by a fifteen-year-old girl (who is herself an adult in the epilogue), the rest is third person set in wartime occupied Netherlands, with characters in their twenties.

Winner of the Carnegie Medal, it's one of the best novels I've read in the last couple of years, YA or otherwise.

Stunted · Oct 14, 2009

Disdainful Soul said:
Yup. First two chapters - The Other Minister and Spinner's End - of Half-Blood Prince are the first to come to mind.

Listen, by the end, Harry Potter didn't have to follow any rules, and it was never, strictly, considered YA. I don't think it counts.

No, but I remember hating reading about the YAMC's parents or whatever. Even now (I'm 18), I imagine adult characters in books as younger then they actually are. I, personally, would go to extreme lengths to avoid having anything in a YA novel from an adult point of view, though maybe two scenes, scattered throughout the book would be all right.

Amynta · Oct 14, 2009

Well, there are non-HP incidences.

First Test by Tamora Pierce opens with Alanna and John etc. all talking - they're dicussing the main character, yes, but she's not present.

The Tricksters has the mother and a guest discussing the past of the house (I don't know if Anthony's exact age was given, but he was not a teen).

It does happen, and if it makes the story stronger/clarifies something, then I think you should do it.

Skye Jules · Oct 14, 2009

Unwind has several POVs from adult perspectives.

ejwriter · Oct 15, 2009

Hm. I would disagree about HP not being YA (or MG even). It certainly drew appeal from all ages in the end, but I assume it started out shelved in the young reader sections of book stores. (correct me if i'm wrong. i'm honestly just making that assumption. didn't get into HP until book 4 came out)

But if it does count as YA, then the first line/first chapter of the first book is a great example of adult POV in a YA story.

kaitlin008 · Oct 15, 2009

I think Disdainful Soul made a good earlier point: immortal beings who are older than teens (eg. Keenan and others in Wicked Lovely). I never feel pulled out of the story by anything like that. In fact, I think it's beneficial, often.

Interesting observation on POV?

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