emotional incongruency between narrator and reader?

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greglondon

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SPOILERS for "Sixth Sense" and "The Usual Suspects" are in this thread. Stop reading if you haven't seen those movies.

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What do you call it when the narrator is feeling one thing and the reader is feeling something else entirely? I'm calling it "emotional incongruency between narrator and reader", but that's just my own term.

And it's not an unreliable narrator.

"Sixth Sense" has an unreliable narrator. Bruce Willis doesn't realize he's a ghost, so he's "unreliable" as the narrator. But the movie has emotional congruency between Bruce Willis and the audience. When Bruce thinks he's a therapist taking care of the kid, the audience does too. When Bruce is shocked to find out he's a ghost, the audience is shocked too.

"The Usual Suspects" also has an unreliable narrator. "Verbal" is lying throughout most of the movie. But the movie has a lot of emotional INcongruency. While watching the story play out, the audience may be feeling worried about poor Verbal caught in the crossfire, poor Verbal watching the fire burn. But Verbal wasn't feeling sorry for himself at all. Everything was going exactly according to his plan. So, for most of the movie, the audience, living teh story through Verbal's shoes, is feeling scared for Verbal, but the entire time Verbal was not feeling scared at all.

Is there a name for this emotional incongruency between the narrator and the reader?
 
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Lady Ice

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Dramatic irony. The audience are aware of something that the character is ignorant of. Say X character isn't feeling scared but we are. We know his actions are bad- he doesn't.
 

greglondon

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Lady Ice, is it still dramatic irony if the character knows something the reader doesn't?

In the Usual Suspects, Verbal was lying, but the audience doesn't know that until the very end. Until that point, we think he's feeling scared and over his head. At the end, we find out it was all one big lie, and he was never scared.

When I think of irony, I think of a character saying something but the audience knowing more than the character, to give his words a different meaning or importance.

In this case, the character actually knows more than the reader.

Not that it matters who knows more than whom, the idea is that what the reader is feeling is not the same as what the character is feeling, what the reader thinks the character is feeling is not what the character is actually feeling.

Maybe it's still irony. I dunno.
 

Lady Ice

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Emotional distance? Or emotional manipulation?
 

greglondon

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Oh, another example of incongruency is when the narrator cries but the reader is indifferent. I remember a Harry Potter fan I knew telling me that they didn't like the scene in the book where Harry lashes out and cries and does all sort of other emotionally extreme things when Dumbledore died. They felt disconnected from Harry, because Harry was reacting much more extreme than they would have.

I suppose really bad writing might have a character cry but the reader have no context or understanding so the reader doesn't feel anything.

I guess that might be accidental irony.
 

greglondon

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heh, or in the Star Wars prequels, Anakin Skywalker is running around sulking, crying, and screaming "It's not fair", obi-wan doesn't understand me, and all I could think was "you're a brat".

;)

I didn't feel anything he was feeling, I had zero empathy, zero sympathy, zero compassion. I just wanted to smack him around, and the story annoyed the hell out of me.
 

CaroGirl

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Um, spoiler? I've seen both those films, and so have millions of people, but I'm sure there are one or two out there who might not have seen them yet intend to see them at some point. The first post would absolutely ruin both of them for anyone who hasn't seen them.

Maybe a mod can add *spoiler* to the title?
 

katiemac

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"The Usual Suspects" also has an unreliable narrator. "Verbal" is lying throughout most of the movie. But the movie has a lot of emotional INcongruency. While watching the story play out, the audience may be feeling worried about poor Verbal caught in the crossfire, poor Verbal watching the fire burn. But Verbal wasn't feeling sorry for himself at all. Everything was going exactly according to his plan. So, for most of the movie, the audience, living teh story through Verbal's shoes, is feeling scared for Verbal, but the entire time Verbal was not feeling scared at all.

Oh, another example of incongruency is when the narrator cries but the reader is indifferent. I remember a Harry Potter fan I knew telling me that they didn't like the scene in the book where Harry lashes out and cries and does all sort of other emotionally extreme things when [snipped]. They felt disconnected from Harry, because Harry was reacting much more extreme than they would have.

It seems like you're talking about two different things here. It's one thing if a character is purposefully keeping information from other characters, and therefore the reader. It's entirely different if a character's emotions are there on the page but a reader just isn't feeling it.

The latter is way more subjective, and not something you can control for every single reader.
 

Ruv Draba

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Empathy is knowing what someone else feels; sympathy is wanting someone else to be satisfied. An antonym of empathy is misunderstanding; antonyms of sympathy are disdain or indifference.

Empathy in fiction comes about by strong dialogue and good narration. Much of the point of the writer's adage 'show don't tell' is to keep the story's emotions accessible and interesting to the reader. But sympathy comes about when we find characters that want what we want, or that suffer. This can give us very different kinds of sympathetic character.

When a character wants what we want it becomes an idealisation of ourselves. We instantly identify with characters who share our struggles. We want to feel what they feel (or more to the point we want them to feel what we feel). We want them to be heroes; we equate meeting their desires to filling the world with good. Such characters are an escape for us.

But another kind of sympathetic character doesn't have to be heroic or even likeable. All it needs to do is suffer.

In Gogol's short story The Overcoat, the main character is a poor government clerk who needs a new overcoat, goes to great effort to have a new one made, then has it stolen. His fruitless efforts to have the authorities take an interest in the theft is the subject of the story. We haven't necessarily had those experiences ourselves, but we understand that the overcoat is both warmth and respectability and that losing both is terrible, so we sympathise even when we don't feel every single emotion he has.

In Ian McEwan's novel The Cement Garden, on the death of their mother four children hide the fact that they're orphans from the rest of the world. None of the children are greatly likeable, and some are outright repulsive. With their parents gone their home-life devolves into Lord of the Flies, but we never lose our sympathy for them because they're suffering from lack of parenting.

As well as bridging our empathy, a narrator's job is to get us to invest our sympathy somewhere. The critical 'hook' at the start of the story is nothing more than our decision to care about the story -- and that means caring about some of its characters.

But caring about them doesn't mean we have to identify with them. The difference between escapist and non-escapist fiction may well be that one question: does the story ask us to believe that we are one of its characters?
 

The Lonely One

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I could think of a purposeful manipulation, where a writer uses another character's downfall intentionally as comedic relief. If it's overly dramatic or the character isn't likable, or has it coming.

Not sure if that has anything to do with what you're saying.
 

greglondon

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Empathy is knowing what someone else feels; sympathy is wanting someone else to be satisfied. An antonym of empathy is misunderstanding; antonyms of sympathy are disdain or indifference.

I guess I'm talking about empathy, about not knowing how the narrator feels, thinking the narrator feels one way, and finding out they feel another way.

You could know what a serial killer feels and not feel sympathy for them.

But if the story is written such that you don't have empathy for teh character, if you misunderstand how they're feeling (because the narrator knows more than the reader, or because the writer left out some critical information to keep the reader in teh dark), then I'm trying to think of an example of a story were that was a good thing.

I can't think of a single story where I misunderstood what the narrator was feeling during the story, there's a big reveal at the end of teh story to show that I had misunderstood, and I felt good about it as a reader.

I enjoyed "Sixth Sense" because even though Bruce was an unreliable narrator, I was feeling pretty much what he was feeling when he was feeling it.

The only big example of anti-empathy I can think of is "The Usual Suspects" because I thought Verbal felt one way and he really felt another way. But for me, it had a "It was all a dream" feeling to it at the end. Not very satisfying.

Anyone have any examples of a famous good story/movie where the audience thought teh narrator was feelign one thing and it turned out they were feeling something else?

It seems like you disconnect the reader from the emotions and feelings of the narrator at great peril.
 
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