Adverb Placement

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Scotty108

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The general rules for adverbs in the middle of sentences:

-before an action verb
-after a form of be
-between the auxiliary and the action verb

Now, where do you put the adverb if there are two auxiliaries? I know that sometimes placement depends on meaning, but is there a general rule?
 

Fallen

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Eesh, adverbs. Funny little buggers at the best of times.

Hmmmmmmm, medial posistion adverbs.

He really should have driven there
He should really have driven there.
He should have really driven there
He should have driven there really
Really, he should have driven there

It seems to come down to a lot of things reall: tone and tonicity (how you want the sentence to come across (forceful etc)); coloquial/formal use, and the particular adverb in question. ('Really' is showing authorial stance (mine), and seems to enjoy Initial, medial or end position (well, it does in my warped vocb, ok :) )

Some adverbs sit happily at the beginning, some at the end, some in the middle. The middle ones, I think, tend to be pretty flexible, I can't find a rule that sez you're best doing it this or that way. But then most rules are just guidelines anyway.

Hope that helps in a small way, hun...
 
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blacbird

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As a follow-up on Fallen's comment, the best rendering of this sentence is:

He should have driven there.

Which says a fair amount about the utility of many adverbs.

caw
 

Drice

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As a follow-up on Fallen's comment, the best rendering of this sentence is:

He should have driven there.

Which says a fair amount about the utility of many adverbs.

caw

I agree with this to some extent. I mean you can't really go wrong by taking the minimalist approach. I think that by using only black paint, an artist won't be making many bad colour choices, but at the same time the painter won't be learning to use colour in all its glory. So rather than by recommending that adverbs be banished it might be better to demonstrate how to use them as they are meant to be used. Then the writer will be ready for those times when they're really needed.

And that's really all I have to say.
 

blacbird

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So rather than by recommending that adverbs be banished it might be better to demonstrate how to use them as they are meant to be used. Then the writer will be ready for those times when they're really needed.

Agreed. It's just that, in the example given, this one really wasn't.

The first question I always ask myself, when I have an adverb or adjective question in looking at my own rough drafts, isn't "Where should I put it?" It's "Do I need the it?" More often than not, the quickest way to resolve the problem is just to jettison the damn thing.

Adverbs commonly do not "add color" to one's prose. Rather, they water it down into insipid pastels.

caw
 
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Bartholomew

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Adverbs for emphasis usually sound better when they're absent.

The problem with adverbs outside of emphasis, though, is that they're telly.

He walked quietly. Solid sentence. But what's the context? Am I painting a picture with action in it?

The security guard stopped to admire himself in the glass. Fussing with his tie, the strangest sensation of dread overcame him. He turned, but saw nothing in the room behind him. Nonetheless, remembering the ghost story his friend had told him earlier, he walked quietly out of the room.

See-- I built that around an adverb, and its a really weak paragraph, particularly at the ending, because I'm telling the audience how he left--and the adverb is a part of that. At the same time, Blacbird's minimalism won't work in an example like this, because it changes the meaning too much.

So you zoom the camera in.

The security guard stopped to admire himself in the glass. Fussing with his tie, the strangest sensation of dread overcame him. He glanced behind him; nothing moved. It was still a room full of paintings. But that stupid ghost story wouldn't get out of his head, and he spent the rest of his shift walking as though the floor would crack if he put his feet down too hard, and wondering how his pulse wasn't tripping a noise alarm.

It's still rough draft quality, but it's MUCH closer to a scene that would mostly survive revision.

Blacbird is right; 99% of all adverbs you put into a work are going to be rubbish, and here's why.

But if I have something like...

Leroy swung.


Devoid of context, that leaves a number of question--and one of them is how did he swing? Adverbs answer that question.

So a revised version with a good adverb would be:

He swung hard.

If your adverb isn't answering a question, you don't need it.

...unless you happen to need it. It happens. It's rare, but it happens.
 

Fallen

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Oh, so the kid actually said 'where do you place adverbs on auxiliarys when writing fiction'. Damn, I knew I should have worn my glassess.

Oh, hang on - no. Is that...? Oh you guys. Fictional writing wasn't actually mentioned, was it. What are you like, eh?

Maybe, on the small off-chance here, this kid actually knows WHEN to use adverbs, he's just stuck on a praticular way to express an adverb in say GENERAL usage. Maybe, just maybe, I wasn't answering with fictional examples up there. Is there any chance., that maybe I was answering with simple everyday examples of when adverbs are used with auxiliarys. Which, from my last observation - they are used..

Seriously - even if it was fiction, if I was defining character thorugh his own idio-sin-cracy, then I'd sin away everytime. Afterall, who am I to change the way people speak or express themselves. Adverbs are used in fiction, whether we like them not. And if you do choose to use them why shouldn't you worry over whether you're going about it the right way or not?
 
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Drice

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Maybe, just maybe, I wasn't answering with fictional examples up there. Is there any chance., that maybe I was answering with simple everyday examples of when adverbs are used with auxiliarys. Which, from my last observation - they are used..

Seriously - even if it was fiction, if I was defining character thorugh his own idio-sin-cracy, then I'd sin away everytime. Afterall, who am I to change the way people speak or express themselves. Adverbs are used in fiction, whether we like them not. And if you do choose to use them why shouldn't you worry over whether you're going about it the right way or not?

You are correct. I appreciate being dragged back on course.

Sin-cerely
 

Strange Days

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Really can be easily substituted for indeed in many cases. Or, actually, removed, as many here suggested. But then- there are adverbs like barely, merely, hardly, slightly, etc- not that easy to ditch those, to be fair...
 

Drice

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Really can be easily substituted for indeed in many cases. Or, actually, removed, as many here suggested.

Don't you mean the other way round? Indeed substituted for really?

In any case you seem to be suggesting that really needn't be used cuz on account of there are so many other words to play with instead. Well I say it's all about context and the precise mood, feeling, image or whatever you are trying to create. I'd use really anytime it's precisely the right word. And the same goes for any other word.

I am fond of all of my words and just because others may misuse, over-use or abuse them doesn't make me less inclined to use them myself.
 

Bartholomew

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Oh, so the kid actually said 'where do you place adverbs on auxiliarys when writing fiction'. Damn, I knew I should have worn my glassess.

Oh, hang on - no. Is that...? Oh you guys. Fictional writing wasn't actually mentioned, was it. What are you like, eh?

Maybe, on the small off-chance here, this kid actually knows WHEN to use adverbs, he's just stuck on a praticular way to express an adverb in say GENERAL usage. Maybe, just maybe, I wasn't answering with fictional examples up there. Is there any chance., that maybe I was answering with simple everyday examples of when adverbs are used with auxiliarys. Which, from my last observation - they are used..

Seriously - even if it was fiction, if I was defining character thorugh his own idio-sin-cracy, then I'd sin away everytime. Afterall, who am I to change the way people speak or express themselves. Adverbs are used in fiction, whether we like them not. And if you do choose to use them why shouldn't you worry over whether you're going about it the right way or not?

Sarcastic rants fix everything, no?

There's no discernible difference in meaning between these:

He quickly ran,
He ran quickly, and
Quickly, he ran.
 

Strange Days

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Don't you mean the other way round? Indeed substituted for really?

I used to overindulge in "really" a lot. Yes, sometimes, undoubtedly - as any other word - it is the only right one. But in many cases- it did turn out to be an unnecesary one in my work. So, I annihilated over 60% of it. However, I must say, it's impossible to throw it away from the dialogues at all, for example... As for indeed used more frequently than really- St. King in Dark Tower made a great example. I do agree, though, that every word has its merits...
 

2Wheels

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And then there's the modern spoken tendency to strip the 'ly' off all adverbs (grrr). Makes them all sound real good.
 

Drice

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I sin when able, but I think that the point I was making is that statements like "99% of all adverbs you put into a work are going to be rubbish" are really dopey and sometimes through the use of well chosen adverbs the best writing is possible - where removing them only makes the piece less yummy.

And damn, pastels don't have to be insipid. They can be wonderfully subtle just like adverbs.
 
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