Multiple Submission etiquette

Nateskate · Jul 13, 2005

I've seen this topic before, and some of you faced this. You sent multiple query letters. Now, when you got more than one reply, they asked you for the manuscript or the synopsis. Now, I realize you've got to make a choice at this point.

The issue is obvious. You are looking for an agent, and although they are interested in you, you aren't signed. You wouldn't want to burn the other bridge, but I'm not sure there's a graceful way to say, "I'm sending the ms to this other agent, but I want you to be on deck just in case they say 'not buying'.

How did you deal with this? Was there a way to put one off until you got a commitment from the other? Did anyone ever do that and succeed? My concern is that once you say "Wait" to the second, you've pretty much lost them.

veinglory · Jul 13, 2005

My best guess is that is they say explicitly that they do not consider simultaneous submissions you pick one and ignore the other. If they don't you slip a quick comment in mentioning 'this manuscript is also under consideration by...'

scribbler1382 · Jul 13, 2005

The truth shall set you free.

Always be upfront with them and you won't have a problem down the line. Most agents won't mind, since that's how they submit your work to publishers. They will, however, mind being lied to or not told everything up front. And if the agent is any good at all, they'll know all the tricks in the book, so don't think you're "pulling" something they've never heard of or seen before.

As with everything in this industry, use a combination of the guidelines and your own judgement and you should do fine.

eldragon · Jul 13, 2005

I say submit submit submit submit.

I have been excited too many times - waiting for some agent or publisher to accept my book.

Seems to me that, even when they request the manuscript, you still have a long shot at being signed. I even had a loser agent waste my time for 6 months. Time is of the essence....... agents and publisher's aren't only reading your workk, either.

Until you get a contract and do your research on the agent / publishing house - keep shopping your work.

Nateskate · Jul 13, 2005

eldragon said:
I say submit submit submit submit.

I have been excited too many times - waiting for some agent or publisher to accept my book.

Seems to me that, even when they request the manuscript, you still have a long shot at being signed. I even had a loser agent waste my time for 6 months. Time is of the essence....... agents and publisher's aren't only reading your workk, either.

Until you get a contract and do your research on the agent / publishing house - keep shopping your work.

Well, it could be stickier than that since I met both agents, and I want to avoid the risk of offending either if possible. It's not only a matter of them having been nice to me, which counts for something, but they know each other, and a bunch of other agents as well.

It could wind up like dating two women at once, not telling them about each other, and while I'm deciding who I want to marry, they learn the truth and they both dump me as the dishonest "loser", even if I really loved them both.

I'd hate to get black-listed in New York. Even if I don't fit them with this book, I might want to keep a line open with future books of a different Genre.

But I know what you mean. It's so hard to get noticed, the temptation to shot-gun to everyone would be overwhelming.

eldragon · Jul 13, 2005

Have you met both agents face to face? If so, that's excellent!

Personally ........I'm a bit fed up. I had an agent for six months that did nothing. Then, I started shopping again. I had an agent ask me to "Send two copies of your manuscript." Which, of course - I did. Then, I heard NOTHING From her. My manuscript is close to 400 pages - and then I had to mail it - and she couldn't give me the courtesy of a "no thanks." (BTW - it was in April.)

Then, I have had several publisher's bring my book to the table ........getting my hopes up.........and then deciding not to go with a memoir.

Today I received a form rejection from an agent. I mean, I print out chapters, a market analysis, an opening letter or query, a title page, an outline, author bio, synopsis .........whatever they specify exactly. I print these, I mail these......and they are "so overwhelmed with submissions they can't take on new clients or read materials." Gosh - thanks alot!

But, it's the one who wanted two copies that burns me.

Nateskate · Jul 13, 2005

eldragon said:
Have you met both agents face to face? If so, that's excellent!

Personally ........I'm a bit fed up. I had an agent for six months that did nothing. Then, I started shopping again. I had an agent ask me to "Send two copies of your manuscript." Which, of course - I did. Then, I heard NOTHING From her. My manuscript is close to 400 pages - and then I had to mail it - and she couldn't give me the courtesy of a "no thanks." (BTW - it was in April.)

Then, I have had several publisher's bring my book to the table ........getting my hopes up.........and then deciding not to go with a memoir.

Today I received a form rejection from an agent. I mean, I print out chapters, a market analysis, an opening letter or query, a title page, an outline, author bio, synopsis .........whatever they specify exactly. I print these, I mail these......and they are "so overwhelmed with submissions they can't take on new clients or read materials." Gosh - thanks alot!

But, it's the one who wanted two copies that burns me.

What frustration you must be feeling. It's hard enough writing a book. But I've seen some great writers who have to endure until they find someone who gets their vision. Hang in there and don't give up. Hope is a good friend to hold onto.

Yes, I've met two agents, but in my view it wasn't anything less than divine intervention. I'll say a prayer you find your agent and publisher and soon. Let me know in a PM when it happens.

Nate.

ted_curtis · Jul 13, 2005

Nateskate said:
I've seen this topic before, and some of you faced this. You sent multiple query letters. Now, when you got more than one reply, they asked you for the manuscript or the synopsis. Now, I realize you've got to make a choice at this point. .

I don't see why you can't send your full manuscript to more than one agent. Just as long as you let them know it's not an exclusive look. I don't think you have to worry about it until you get two offers for representation.

And remember, it's not dating, it's a business. Do general contractors get mad if you get two bids on remodeling your kitchen? If anything, it makes them work harder to earn your business.

Ted

LightShadow · Jul 13, 2005

If you didn't simultaneously submit you'd be six feet under before you got off the ground. Who cares if they don't want multiple submissions. Do it, pick the best that responds, and make it big in the business!

Euan H. · Jul 13, 2005

Nateskate said:
when you got more than one reply, they asked you for the manuscript or the synopsis.

I think if they're just asking to see a synopsis or a sample, then there's no problem having lots of submissions out. On the other hand, if you've got two agents asking to see the whole ms., then that's different, as that's what the decision to represent you is based on.

I think you'll be fine as long as you act professionally. Tell the agents that you are not offering an exclusive evaluation of the ms., and if you get an offer, inform the others as soon as you can so they don't waste their time reading an ms. that's no longer available.

Nateskate · Jul 14, 2005

Euan H. said:
I think if they're just asking to see a synopsis or a sample, then there's no problem having lots of submissions out. On the other hand, if you've got two agents asking to see the whole ms., then that's different, as that's what the decision to represent you is based on.

I think you'll be fine as long as you act professionally. Tell the agents that you are not offering an exclusive evaluation of the ms., and if you get an offer, inform the others as soon as you can so they don't waste their time reading an ms. that's no longer available.

Well, they both asked me to contact them, and were both aware of each other from the word go. One pulled me away after I spoke to the other and said, "Definitely contact me..." Maybe that will give me a competative edge??? Then again, in the end, all that really matters is whether or not my writing is up to their standards, and is something they feel they can represent.

I'm not worried about this whole thing. Ultimately, if my book merrits being published, I'm pretty confident it will be. But if it doesn't, then really, having all the open doors in the world to the agents, doesn't mean a hill of beans. Jim says, "Write the best story you can write..." That's pretty much the part we have control over. Of course, wisdom, and good timing also pay off.

I've been overwhelmed more than I've doubted. Being that this is a series, and I've made extensive revisions to the story, I realize I'm committed to finish this thing. At first you sprint out of the gates, excited about possibilities. Then you walk, realizing your limitations. Then you crawl, because you have these places where you are so exhausted, and just want to make a little forward progress. Then you go back to those first moments when you wondered if you should have hired a ghost writer, "Can somebody please finish this for me!"

Right now agents are just another step in this whole overwhelming project.

Nateskate · Jul 14, 2005

ted_curtis said:
I don't see why you can't send your full manuscript to more than one agent. Just as long as you let them know it's not an exclusive look. I don't think you have to worry about it until you get two offers for representation.

And remember, it's not dating, it's a business. Do general contractors get mad if you get two bids on remodeling your kitchen? If anything, it makes them work harder to earn your business.

Ted

I was hoping some here tried that, and let me know how that worked for them? The contractor thing is somewhat different in that agents have a standard contract which doesn't vary a great deal. In a sense, the whole issue is different than a contractor, because you aren't (hopefully) seeking a long-term partnership. You may be taking a risk believing in them, but they are also taking a risk believing in you, and investing in your career.

Andy Zack "Ask the Agent" was very strongly against that, as were some others. An agent's time is very valuable. They get mountains of information to sort through every day. They only ask for a small percentage of Manuscripts, which is a serious step in the process. Besides, once they have your manuscript, they may do more than read the first four pages, and take some steps before they offer you a contract. These people may be talking to or meeting someone from Avon, Tor, Harpers...etc, and recommend your story, getting a feel for how marketable it is. Then to be put into a position of "Never Mind", is embarrassing to them, and leaves them hanging with their peers. Again, it's like dating two girls at once. It doesn't work well in the open, and get's even messier when it's in secret.

It's a business, and I do get why people want to do that, and perhaps have to do that. Ultimately, you have to be the advocate of your own story.

maestrowork · Jul 14, 2005

Unless the agents specifically say "no sim sub" or they ask for an exclusive, I'd say send them out. First to the ones you REALLY want, then you go down the list. You have to somehow make the choices -- that's the price to make if you go for the shotgun approach. The fact is you are looking for rep -- you ARE the client, not someone who's begging for favor. So first come first serve, I'd say. That's why go for the ones high on your list first... then go down the list.

At this point in the sub process, I wouldn't mention the other agents. As long as the agents don't require exclusive/no sim sub, it's understood that you probably have other prospects. Only when the agent is seriously considering your ms should you tell them "hey, so and so is also taking a look..."

maestrowork · Jul 14, 2005

Nateskate said:
Besides, once they have your manuscript, they may do more than read the first four pages, and take some steps before they offer you a contract. These people may be talking to or meeting someone from Avon, Tor, Harpers...etc..

No, I doubt that. They wouldn't be talking to a publisher unless they are already representing you. Besides, the agent would have asked for an exclusive if that's what he's doing...

Once again, Nate, I think you worry too much. Do what is right for you. Remember, you ARE the client, not someone who is begging for a favor. Have you ever seen those Lending Tree commercials? The banks are lining up to ask for the lender's business... think that, and remember -- you are in charge.

Nateskate · Jul 14, 2005

maestrowork said:
No, I doubt that. They wouldn't be talking to a publisher unless they are already representing you. Besides, the agent would have asked for an exclusive if that's what he's doing...

Once again, Nate, I think you worry too much. Do what is right for you. Remember, you ARE the client, not someone who is begging for a favor. Have you ever seen those Lending Tree commercials? The banks are lining up to ask for the lender's business... think that, and remember -- you are in charge.

On one hand, I'm not worried, at least not worried that I'll never get published. On the other, I worry about every little detail of the process because I'm hoping to avoid some foolish pitfalls, like forgetting the SASE.

I'm a momentum person by nature, which means I do best when I keep pushing "bing, bang, boom" through the process without any delays. You've heard the saying, "A bird in the hand...." That's kind of how I feel about this. This is a great opportunity, and I'm double-checking my actions up front in hopes it will spare me from blowing this chance.

It's not like these are the only agents in the world. But right now they are the only agents who've opened a door for me (even if it's just a crack) If I'm going to wind up rejected, I'm hoping it isn't because I've done something foolish. It seems to me that you have alot of fortitude, a good quality, and perhaps you are the kind of person who will keep knocking until the door opens. That seems to be your nature. My nature is to lose momentum the longer the process is stretched out. So, I tend to over prepare in the beginning.

eldragon · Jul 14, 2005

Andy Zack "Ask the Agent" was very strongly against that, as were some others. An agent's time is very valuable.

So is yours. An agent may not open your materials for weeks. They may not be in a good mood when they do. They may have just found out that their spouse is leaving, etc. They may shred your work without reading it, or after reading the outline.

Some agents request manuscripts and then NEVER bother to tell you anything. You can't wait for that!

maestrowork · Jul 14, 2005

Right on, Pam. Unless you have an exclusive and a time frame (like six weeks), you're betting with your own wasted time. I have one agent who asked for a full ms. and never returned a response -- and when I followed up, she snapped back and said she usually took up to one year to respond. To this day, she still hasn't responded. I have another agent who didn't respond for 8 months. So, how many 8 months or years do you have waiting on one agent or publisher?

If these agents are really important to you, because like you said, they are "doors opened," then by all means wait, but DO ask for a time frame so you don't wait forever.

Nateskate · Jul 14, 2005

eldragon said:
So is yours. An agent may not open your materials for weeks. They may not be in a good mood when they do. They may have just found out that their spouse is leaving, etc. They may shred your work without reading it, or after reading the outline.

Some agents request manuscripts and then NEVER bother to tell you anything. You can't wait for that!

One of the agents told me the subs weed through most of the queries they recieve. And when she gets a manuscript she will know in the first four pages if she likes it. I'm not sure I'm her "type" as far as Genre, but I'd be surprised if I get no response because she knew what my book was about before she requested I contact her. And I didn't say, "Hey, can I contact you..." I was talking to another agent, and she overheard me and came to me and asked me to contact her. "Sure" I said, thinking, "Why not? It's only paper, but maybe this is a door opening, and I should step through."

This was after a friendly chat in which I had already told her, "I'm not asking for your business card, because I don't think I'm your type (Genre)..."

Yes, that sounds bizzare, but everything about that day was bizzare, even the way I got invited to the event, and where I ended up sitting...etc.

I don't know. I guess it was sort of like a verbal query, although I'm sure she wanted to see what my writing looked like.

If the agent leaves it sitting around unopened for weeks, I guess that will tell me a bit about the agent. But it would seem out of character to the person I met.

maestrowork · Jul 14, 2005

Nate, my post is not meant to be mean... but I think you're a little naive because you're new to this process. And I do think you're letting the "serendipity" of the events get to you a bit. But trust me, I was there once. But hear me out because I've been there:

Just because someone asks for your full ms doesn't mean they're going to read it the minute they receive it in a box. Usually, the ms. stays in the box, in a slush pile, until they get around to it. There might be 30 other boxes lining up already, all worthy authors who they requested materials. An agent's job is first and foremost working with editors and their signed clients. They only go through mss. when they have time. And that may mean 4 or 6 or 12 weeks between receiving your ms. to them finally sitting down reading it.

One agent is still reading my ms, after almost 3 months now -- and I have a personal recommendation and this agent has spoken to me multiple times, personally. The problem is, she is BUSY, and I simply am not her top priority. She has deals to make and clients to answer to.

And yes, I am still waiting. But I am not going to just wait for her until the cow comes home. I'm going to do something else: write my book, talk to other agents, do marketing research, submit something else, etc. etc.

----
Also, I think the "4 page" thing is misunderstood. I think you can tell if a ms. is clearly slush or it has potential by reading the first few pages. Then you ask for either a partial (up to 50 pages?) and synopsis or the full ms. If after reading 50 pages the agent is still turning pages, then you have a chance. If not, they will say "no, not for me." This is basically a screening process an agent use so they can weed out 99.9% of slush, so that they only need to read a full ms. if it's REALLY good. And even REALLY good mss. don't make the cut, either. Sad as it is, that's the reality of the business.

Nateskate · Jul 14, 2005

maestrowork said:
Nate, my post is not meant to be mean... but I think you're a little naive because you're new to this process. And I do think you're letting the "serendipity" of the events get to you a bit. But trust me, I was there once. But hear me out because I've been there:

Just because someone asks for your full ms doesn't mean they're going to read it the minute they receive it in a box. Usually, the ms. stays in the box, in a slush pile, until they get around to it. There might be 30 other boxes lining up already, all worthy authors who they requested materials. An agent's job is first and foremost working with editors and their signed clients. They only go through mss. when they have time. And that may mean 4 or 6 or 12 weeks between receiving your ms. to them finally sitting down reading it.

One agent is still reading my ms, after almost 3 months now -- and I have a personal recommendation and this agent has spoken to me multiple times, personally. The problem is, she is BUSY, and I simply am not her top priority. She has deals to make and clients to answer to.

And yes, I am still waiting. But I am not going to just wait for her until the cow comes home. I'm going to do something else: write my book, talk to other agents, do marketing research, submit something else, etc. etc.

----
Also, I think the "4 page" thing is misunderstood. I think you can tell if a ms. is clearly slush or it has potential by reading the first few pages. Then you ask for either a partial (up to 50 pages?) and synopsis or the full ms. If after reading 50 pages the agent is still turning pages, then you have a chance. If not, they will say "no, not for me." This is basically a screening process an agent use so they can weed out 99.9% of slush, so that they only need to read a full ms. if it's REALLY good. And even REALLY good mss. don't make the cut, either. Sad as it is, that's the reality of the business.

I'm naive, and I'm not embarrassed to say that, which is why I'm asking so many questions. As far as slush, my impression was that slush was something that wasn't solicited, things they were sorting through to decide if they want it? Then again, I'm still new to this whole thing.

Honestly, I expect some time before I hear from the agents, but if I'm waiting months just to hear if they want to represent me, I'll keep knocking on doors.

As far as the "four pages", of course that doesn't happen after she takes on a writer. I get the impression she is very involved in the editing process, which takes place before the story goes to the editor. But in her deciding stage, she doesn't read through every manuscript she gets. Unless she was misleading me, she reads the first four pages, then skips large chunks, and will basically look from that point to see that the writing is consistent.

As far as serendipidy, yeah, I'm not saying I know anything for certain. The best you can do in regards to those times when it seems doors are opening or closing, is compare it to how everything else in your life unfolded, and go with your instincts. I'm far from a fatalist, but I also believe some things happen for a reason. Somewhere in the middle of that, I just looked at all of the supposedly "favorable" events. When I see a long string of them, it makes me wonder, and I tend to be more sensitive to "this might have been meant to be."

But if I misread the situation, and these agents tell me to hit the highway and never look back, it was at least an enteresting stop along the way. We'll see.

Multiple Submission etiquette

Nateskate

veinglory

volitare nequeo

scribbler1382

Write For You, Edit For The Reader

eldragon

in a van down by the river

Nateskate

eldragon

in a van down by the river

Nateskate

ted_curtis

LightShadow

defender of the blahs!

Euan H.

Unspeakable

Nateskate

Nateskate

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray

Nateskate

eldragon

in a van down by the river

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray

Nateskate

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray

Nateskate