Introducing a key character really late in the story. Okay or not?

underthecity · Sep 25, 2009

I am once again going through my manuscript seeking problems I missed the first thirty or forty times I edited. The new emphasis is on cutting cutting cutting.

One of the first things to go was a scene in the first chapter where a new character in a minor role, his name was Ray, was cut. Ray also shows up late in the story and plays a somewhat key part during the finale.

The point where Ray shows up again is about 3/4 of the way through at the start of the sequence of events that lead to the climax. One and a half chapters involve just him and his assistant Simon (they are involved in a minor subplot that complements the main plot) WHILE the main plot is going on.

Both Ray and Simon then get involved during the climax and denoument.

I've been thinking I don't really need Simon, so I've decided to remove him and all his lines. I can also cut Ray's POV chapters, as they aren't that critical.

What I'm left with, then, is Ray just "showing up" during the rising action of the climax scenes. He does get involved, and there are things for him to do, and he plays a part during the denoument.

The thing is, in the earlier draft he first appeared at the beginning of the story. Now, with all his previous scenes cut, he just "appears" near the end. Oh, there's a solid reason for his appearance, don't get me wrong, but I'm concerned readers won't really buy a sudden new character showing up near the end of the story without any prior reference. I can add some new lines that reinforce his entrance so it makes more sense.

Is this an okay thing to do? Or should I just attempt to cut Ray entirely out of the story altogether?

Lifelongdagger · Sep 25, 2009

Difficult to say without knowing more about the plot. From what you've described, Ray's appearance needs to be absolutely critical to the plot to justify his continued inclusion. Without knowing more about his actual part it is, as I said, a difficult one to comment on. Does the plot hold up without his inclusion? If you do remove him, is there another way for the plot to work?

Best of luck with this.

Warmest regards,

Ian

aadams73 · Sep 25, 2009

Do you read fiction at all? Ask yourself if you'd be peeved if an author did that to you.

Me, I'd be pissed if the author brought a character out of nowhere to play a part in the climax. It would be a serious "you've got to be kidding me!" moment.

So either stick him back in earlier on and make him relevant, or toss him out completely.

underthecity · Sep 25, 2009

aadams73 said:
Do you read fiction at all? Ask yourself if you'd be peeved if an author did that to you.

Just off the top of my head, I recall where a main character interacts with a new character during events leading to the climax, but that's usually in a one-off scene. Then that new character never returns. I've never had a problem with that.

Lifelongdagger · Sep 25, 2009

I can envisage that at perhaps the end of a book within a series, where in the next book this new character plays more of a major part. Other than that, it might come off a little contrived.

mudbubble · Sep 25, 2009

I clipped this piece of wisdom from Uncle jim's thread just yesterday--

Unless you're writing War and Peace or the Bible, try to have all your characters on stage and moving by page one hundred.

Expert opinion but not a commandment...

hope that helps

Noumenon · Sep 25, 2009

What you're describing is worryingly close to saying "...and the butler did it!" in an Agatha Christie yarn - it can be highly dissatisfying to a reader as there was no warning of his involvement before yet when it comes to the crunch a total unknown invades the story. It can feel like cheating if it equates to a clue withheld and prevents the reader from correctly solving a mystery; if not this exactly, it can certainly look clumsy to anyone unaware of your editing his earlier presence out - how come the writer couldn't find a better way to do things than have some pixie pop out of nowhere and wave his magic wand?

I'd ask: is there any way to assign this guy's vital input to some other character who isn't going to appear only at the last minute? If you've got a cast of five, then reduce it to a cast of 4.1, you have to wonder what part of this guy is so worth keeping aside from the key in his pocket that unlocks chapter 20. Is there another relatively peripheral character with whom he can be combined? This could be far better, as the new character you'd end up with would have more relevance to your story and become stronger for it.

Phaeal · Sep 25, 2009

Meh, sometimes a character just can't appear until late in the story -- for example, that's when the POV character meets him or seeks him out. However, the more he appears bearing the solution of the big problem in his hands, the more likely the reader is to view him as a cheat. "Cheat" is civilian for "deus ex machina." Or "cocka-doodie cheat," as King's Annie Wilkes would put it.

underthecity · Sep 25, 2009

Noumenon said:
. . . how come the writer couldn't find a better way to do things than have some pixie pop out of nowhere and wave his magic wand?

I'd ask: is there any way to assign this guy's vital input to some other character who isn't going to appear only at the last minute?

First question: Ray doesn't actually "fix" everything, he just gets involved. He's part of the overall support.

Second: Yes, and this is something I've been considering for the past day, which was why I posted the question in the first place.

I do have an important secondary character, Christopher, who first appears in the first chapter, and who makes regular appearances through the first half or so of the book. I could eliminate Ray altogether and return Christopher to the climax where he takes Ray's role, sort of.

But I'd have to find a reason for Christopher's re-emergence, plus do a vast rewrite to include him. Which was why I've been hesitating.

underthecity · Sep 25, 2009

By the way, you can read the first two chapters in SYW if you'd like. Dgiharris calls it "more or less of publishable quality," so I've got that going for me.

Darzian · Sep 25, 2009

Phaeal said:
Meh, sometimes a character just can't appear until late in the story -- for example, that's when the POV character meets him or seeks him out. However, the more he appears bearing the solution of the big problem in his hands, the more likely the reader is to view him as a cheat. "Cheat" is civilian for "deus ex machina." Or "cocka-doodie cheat," as King's Annie Wilkes would put it.

I agree with this. Characters popping up near the climax is awfully close to deus ex.

underthecity, is this the story involving a machine that detects ghosts? I seem to remember you posting a sample some time back and really loved it so I was just wondering.

underthecity · Sep 25, 2009

That's the one. Please see Post 10 above you for a sample link.

backslashbaby · Sep 25, 2009

I generally say No. That doesn't mean there aren't exceptions. It depends so much on how the story has been before, and what role the new guy plays.

Are we just observing something clever, without having to know about him/care about him? That could work, imho. Depending on so many other things, of course.

Do you have many characters coming and going? The more the story has been introverted, the less likely a new character works that late.

I'm sure there are other questions I'd have, but I can't think of them now. Why does your instinct say it'd work? Or is it telling you something isn't quite right?

maestrowork · Sep 25, 2009

Ray is the best.

But anyway, there are no rules. As long as it makes sense to the story, and as long as the character doesn't just show up and save the day (and you have at least a hint of him -- may a mention or two, at least), you'll be fine. There is absolutely no rule that says all your key characters must show up in the first half of the book.

katiemac · Sep 25, 2009

If there's no way around the fact he doesn't show up until much later, your characters should talk about him in other scenes. That way, the reader will pretty much expect the guy to turn up and it's only a matter of time of when he does.

underthecity · Sep 25, 2009

katiemac said:
If there's no way around the fact he doesn't show up until much later, your characters should talk about him in other scenes.

Waiting for Godot, in other words.

No, the other characters don't know this guy exists. Well, the MC did know him--he met him at the end of chapter 1 in the earlier draft. But I cut that scene.

I think I've pretty much decided to cut Ray out of the story altogether, given the responses in this thread, and (somehow) subsitute Christopher in his place. Also, it makes sense, since Christopher was important earlier on then disappears. Doing so will tighten things up more and eliminate quite a few words. Maybe not my 20,000 word cut goal, but maybe a thousand or more.

My new challenge, then, is to get Christopher into the action at the right time during those rising action scenes near the end. So far, the closest thing I've come up with is "Hey, Greg, I hadn't heard from you in a while, thought I'd drop by. What in the world is going on in here?"

Or something.

Sigh. I thought I was done with this thing nine months ago.

Noumenon · Sep 25, 2009

maestrowork said:
As long as it makes sense to the story, and as long as the character doesn't just show up and save the day (and you have at least a hint of him -- may a mention or two, at least), you'll be fine. There is absolutely no rule that says all your key characters must show up in the first half of the book.

katiemac said:
If there's no way around the fact he doesn't show up until much later, your characters should talk about him in other scenes. That way, the reader will pretty much expect the guy to turn up and it's only a matter of time of when he does.

This is all valid, if the guy is being pursued and is more or less a goal of the hero's quest in himself. Like the I/O Tower Guardian in Tron.

underthecity said:
Waiting for Godot, in other words.

Or the I/O Tower Guardian in Tron, yes.

I'm going to slink off and read those chapters now...

...and then maybe watch Tron...

Raphee · Sep 25, 2009

As long as Ray doesnt unleash the fury of hell on all concerned, I see no problem.

Just make sure that he is not a dues ex machina.

It would be great if you could introduce him however slightly somewhere in the book before, if his role is very important. Otherwise I don't see a problem. Characters have to appear at the right point in time, the right order and do the right thing. Sometimes it just happens to be later in the book.

Stunted · Sep 26, 2009

One factor, which I think is very important, is how consistently new characters are introduced. If you have new characters coming in and out all the time, then your situation is very different than if you have a very small group of characters who were all introduced in the beginning.

motormind · Sep 26, 2009

I do this all the time, so I don't see anything wrong with it. I do foreshadow their existence though.

oswann · Sep 26, 2009

underthecity said:
The thing is, in the earlier draft he first appeared at the beginning of the story. Now, with all his previous scenes cut, he just "appears" near the end. Oh, there's a solid reason for his appearance, don't get me wrong, but I'm concerned readers won't really buy a sudden new character showing up near the end of the story without any prior reference. I can add some new lines that reinforce his entrance so it makes more sense.

Is this an okay thing to do? Or should I just attempt to cut Ray entirely out of the story altogether?

I'd cut him out.

Of course, I don't know the story but the problem is the reader won't care about the chararcter because they will have developed no attachments to him. If the character's raison d'etre is to drive the plot think about how to drive it home without the character or if the character is so fabulous that he must be in the story, put him in earlier.

Os.

Telstar · Sep 26, 2009

I would put back the scene at the beginning of the book. It is my conviction that any character having a major impact in the climax should be made known to the reader as soon as possible.

Telstar · Sep 26, 2009

maestrowork said:
There is absolutely no rule that says all your key characters must show up in the first half of the book.

There's no rule but it sound less deux ex machina or improvised/ having a rushed end, if it does..

Ken Hoss · Sep 26, 2009

In my current WIP, I have a character that is originally introduced in the first chapter, however, he doesn't appear again until the 8th. And he is the antagonist in the story. So, I would say that as long as your key character was introduced somewhere in the first or possibly second chapter, it should be okay.

Note: The time between the first and second through eighth chapters is 12 years. Additionally, chapters 2 thru 8 take place over a four day period, not weeks or months.

maestrowork · Sep 26, 2009

Telstar said:
There's no rule but it sound less deux ex machina or improvised/ having a rushed end, if it does..

It's Deus ex Machina only if the character comes out of no where and saves the day without any rhyme and reason or foreshadowing. But we're really not talking about a character showing up at the climax, are we? He's talking about having a character, who has been mentioned before, showing up in the story for the last 1/4 of the book instead of/in addition to the main characters. I think it's perfectly fine.

It is my conviction that any character having a major impact in the climax should be made known to the reader as soon as possible.

In Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, the Knight didn't show up until the last reel. We didn't expect a 400-year-old guy in the cave but there he was. It fit the story, and the it was logical and relevant. The Knight was part of the resolution of the climax.

Introducing a key character really late in the story. Okay or not?

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