On Motives

panda · Sep 24, 2009

I suppose motives for murder could be broken down into three main categories: Greed, Jealousy, and Revenge. Those are usually the three biggies, my question (and yes, I do have one, lol) is what is a really strong motive scenario for you?

What reason is strong enough to warrant murder in your opinion and leaves you feeling sated as a reader while maybe shedding new light on the antagonist.

Ken Hoss · Sep 24, 2009

I don't really have one "favorite" motive. I suppose that out of the three though, jealously tops the list, with revenge a close second.

heyjude · Sep 25, 2009

I'd buy any motive as long as it makes sense. Too many books make me roll my eyes and say "Why would s/he do that?!"

My personal favorite is "get him before he gets me." Self-defense, but in a more proactive way.

jeseymour · Sep 25, 2009

I think it was Elmore Leonard who said all motives can be broken down to two things - love or money. Everything else fits into those categories. I can think of lots of motives for murder, but in the long run, I guess they always come back to those two. Unless you have a psychopath, I'm not sure someone with serious mental issues would care about love or money.

Maybe what's more important is why a *particular character* chooses to kill. That comes down to motivation. If you can show me why that character needs to kill that person (and what the motive is certainly fits) then I'll believe it. But it has to fit the character. The character is more important than just having a good motive.

RJK · Sep 25, 2009

You left out pleasure and fear. Most serial killers receive sexual gratification from their kills. Many homicides are the results of the perpetrator's fear of being caught at committing a different crime, burglary, robbery, rape, etc.

kaitie · Sep 25, 2009

I'd never actually approve in real life, and sometimes am even disappointed when characters kill people no matter what the motive, but I suppose if I had to say...probably the ones I've found to be the most moving have been cases where it's really hard for the main character to do. For instance, a pacifist being put in a situation where they are forced to kill someone to save someone else, or the concept of killing someone you love to save them from something can really intriguing when done right. I'd say those are the most powerful things for me. I'm actually not a big fan of main characters who kill easily without seeming to be affected by it. It happens so often I usually just accept it as fact.

And to completely contradict what I just said (it isn't really, it's a different thing entirely), I love a good villain and am not picky on motivation as long as it makes sense for the character. Extremes intrigue me. Particularly those on the opposite extreme from myself.

Ken Hoss · Sep 25, 2009

jeseymour said:
Maybe what's more important is why a *particular character* chooses to kill. That comes down to motivation. If you can show me why that character needs to kill that person (and what the motive is certainly fits) then I'll believe it. But it has to fit the character. The character is more important than just having a good motive.

Like framing your rival for muder to get him/her out of the picture. Then you're free to get the girl/guy.

kaitie · Sep 25, 2009

Ken, I want to read your book. :tongue

Ken Hoss · Sep 25, 2009

kaitie said:
Ken, I want to read your book.

If I ever finish it, you can have the honor of buying the first copy.

But framing his/her rival is not even the best part! So, if you want to find that out, you'll have to buy the book. :tongue

panda · Sep 25, 2009

You left out pleasure and fear. Most serial killers receive sexual gratification from their kills. Many homicides are the results of the perpetrator's fear of being caught at committing a different crime, burglary, robbery, rape, etc.

Yeah, but pleasure from killing is a secondary result, not usually a prime motivator, I'm thinking the motive in that case would be more along the lines of Control. Like serial rapists, for example the pleasure the rapist gets is secondary to his primary motive for the need to control/humiliate the victim. Fear could be its own category, but I'm not sure if it would make me more sympathetic to the villain. Because they are basically acting out of cowardice.

Ken Hoss said:
Like framing your rival for murder to get him/her out of the picture. Then you're free to get the girl/guy.

That's sort of more the motive I was thinking, and it would fall under jealousy--all for a sick twisted love. Also, this topic makes me think of the movie Scream. (Yeah I know silly teen horror flick) But the motive really got to me...he killed his girlfriend's mom, because her mom had slept with his dad, and the affair tore apart his family. The killer's own mom flew the coop as a result, setting off the spark that turned him into a killer.

I thought that was a pretty strong motive, which would def. fall under revenge.

But yeah it's difficult if you want to write a psychopathic killer and still have him/her have a motive that makes sense as another poster said. (Because in real life motives can be quite flimsy-but I don't think this would fly in fiction) And also you look back and see all the clues you missed that lead you to this motive, while you smack you forehead, thinking, ah, i should have seen that coming.

I think that if the motive is strong enough, whatever it may be, it can garner perhaps not sympathy but a new understanding on the actions of a killer. I dunno the "crazy" killer who kills because of paranoid delusions of "he was going to get me" seems a bit weak to me. Just like ending the story with "oh, he was psycho/crazy/etc..." Because, yeah, granted psychos have a different emotional q than regular people, they may not feel remorse, but they still have drivers and reasons to do the terrible things they do, in fiction anyway. End rant. lol

Ken Hoss · Sep 25, 2009

panda said:
That's sort of more the motive I was thinking, and it would fall under jealousy--all for a sick twisted love.

That's what I was referencing, motive. He/she kills out of jealously, because the friend has the girl/guy he/she wants, so he/she frames the other person to get them out of the way. That is the motive.

Like framing your rival for muder to get him/her out of the picture. Then you're free to get the girl/guy.

panda · Sep 25, 2009

Yeah, I understood what you were saying in the first post and that you were referencing motive. what else would we be talking about lol

Ken Hoss · Sep 25, 2009

panda said:
Yeah, I understood what you were saying in the first post and that you were referencing motive. what else would we be talking about lol

My bad.... :Ssh:

I misunderstood, oops!

panda · Sep 25, 2009

Ken Hoss said:
My bad....

I misunderstood, oops!

no it's my bad, i didn't write my reply very clearly i don't think,
anyways, i do like the motive you've come up with, definitely the sort of thing i like to read about.

If I ever finish it, you can have the honor of buying the first copy.

But framing his/her rival is not even the best part! So, if you want to find that out, you'll have to buy the book.

I might have to buy the second copy of your book.

Ken Hoss · Sep 25, 2009

panda said:
I might have to buy the second copy of your book.

Too much pressure! I can't take the pressure! My head's going to explode!

BOOM!!!!

Well, still here, crap! No work on the novel today, sorry. You'll just have to wait like the rest... But I did finish my short horror twist on Frosty*, though it's not really Frosty, just an evil cousin. Bwah ha ha!

*2480 words

PeterL · Sep 26, 2009

panda said:
I suppose motives for murder could be broken down into three main categories: Greed, Jealousy, and Revenge. Those are usually the three biggies, my question (and yes, I do have one, lol) is what is a really strong motive scenario for you?

It doesn't necessarily take much of a motive for someone to commit murder. There have been many "thrill" murders for which the motive was curiousity. Then there was the Manson family; I'm not sure that there was a motive, except for a desire to kill.

What reason is strong enough to warrant murder in your opinion and leaves you feeling sated as a reader while maybe shedding new light on the antagonist.

As a human, I think that murder as a tool for self-preservation is perfectly acceptable. As a reader, I feel the same, self-preservation and good revenge are fine. It would also depend on the characters. Murder as a way of developing a character might be OK, if that would be suitable to the character.

Steam&Ink · Sep 26, 2009

Don't forget cover-up murders. I.e., I did something despicable, and hoped no one would ever find out, and then some pesky person does find out, so I'm forced to kill him/her. This works particularly well for baddies who have a prominent and respected place in society.

Oh, and then of course - and I think this is my favourite - accidental killing. I like this one because it can make the "villain" a tragic figure, so your novel isn't so black-and-white. For example, a child accidentally causes the death of another child, and lives with the guilt his entire life. When the victim's body is discovered (say, some two decades later) you start your mystery as usual, but the protag has to make some big decisions when s/he discovers the real killer.

panda · Sep 26, 2009

steampunkette said:
Oh, and then of course - and I think this is my favourite - accidental killing. I like this one because it can make the "villain" a tragic figure, so your novel isn't so black-and-white. For example, a child accidentally causes the death of another child, and lives with the guilt his entire life. When the victim's body is discovered (say, some two decades later) you start your mystery as usual, but the protag has to make some big decisions when s/he discovers the real killer.

That's a good one I hadn't thought of. I can definitely see accidental murder as eliciting more sympathy for your antagonist. You could really do some interesting things with the character's psychological mindset as well. But with accidents there isn't really a motive, since it's an accident.

Really, the motives that resonate the most with me are the jealousy ones, killing b/c of infidelity, etc, or the revenge ones, betrayed by loved ones, abandoned and so on. It's hard to make motives fresh/unique and still have them be strong enough to induce that "A-ha" moment at the end which totally brings their true character to light and may not be an excuse for all their bad deeds but at least helps explain them.

Ruv Draba · Sep 26, 2009

Also: ideology and fear.

love2write · Oct 4, 2009

panda said:
What reason is strong enough to warrant murder in your opinion and leaves you feeling sated as a reader while maybe shedding new light on the antagonist.

One motive could be proving your innocence. (Don't know if that warrents murder but something close like kidnapping... etc.

Diana W. · Oct 5, 2009

Psychopaths can have motives too. What happened to them to make them snap like that?

gp101 · Oct 5, 2009

Don't forget "survival" and "psychosis" as motives. The "psychosis" one--killing, for example, because you enjoy it or because the "little voice" told you is a tough sell. But "survival" is very primordial--either self-defense, or a pre-emptive strike, meaning going after someone you know will be coming after you. Any of the motives in this thread can be extremely gratifying to a reader so long as they are the result of the corresponding actions in your story, as carried out by the personalities dominating your characters. A priest and a mobster will react very differently, obviously, to a threat made to him by a street thug. Make the next step logical, and your motive will reveal itself to you, rather than you trying to come up with one before you write.

Bufty · Oct 5, 2009

Murder is defined as 'unlawful and premeditated'.

Apart from self-preservation or the immediate protection of others, I can't readily think of a real-life justification.

But in fiction, most folk relax their moral boundaries and provided the good guy appears to have enough justification, or the bad guy behaves badly enough, one accepts the killing of the bad guy without too much concern about the morals.

panda said:
I suppose motives for murder could be broken down into three main categories: Greed, Jealousy, and Revenge. Those are usually the three biggies, my question (and yes, I do have one, lol) is what is a really strong motive scenario for you?

What reason is strong enough to warrant murder in your opinion and leaves you feeling sated as a reader while maybe shedding new light on the antagonist.

Ruv Draba · Oct 5, 2009

Bufty said:
Murder is defined as 'unlawful and premeditated'.

Apart from self-preservation or the immediate protection of others, I can't readily think of a real-life justification.

It depends on the culture. People can get murderous around the breaking of taboos. In Turkey there's a proverb that says you don't touch a man's moustache, the tail of his horse or the hair of his woman. (I have to say that I wouldn't be tempted to break any of these -- except maybe if the horse had a very fine tail.)

On Motives

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