US and UK fantasy: Spot the Difference

Paul

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So, whaddaya think?
Is there a difference. If so What?
I mean in the work, not in sales.
Though readership preference might come into play...
:)
 

Salis

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In UK fantasy, everyone talks funny.
 

S.J.

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I'm unsure as to the nationalities of most fantasy writers - but I do think it's possible to guess whether something's written by a Briton. The writing tends to be... drier, and heavier on the irony. Nothing fantasy-specific comes to mind, though... *ponder*.
 

Higgins

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I'm unsure as to the nationalities of most fantasy writers - but I do think it's possible to guess whether something's written by a Briton. The writing tends to be... drier, and heavier on the irony. Nothing fantasy-specific comes to mind, though... *ponder*.

Diana Wynn-Jones seems typically UK to me. But perhaps the differences go far back in time: E. Nesbit and Professor Challenger vs Edgar Rice Burroughs and HP Lovecraft.
 

Paul

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Hmmm
I think more about the tone of the writing. Reason I'm wondering is that there is bound to be market crossover, from both sides. If it's seemless then that fine. Proably one of the few genres which does
 

ChaosTitan

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Could you perhaps clarify your question?

Do you mean the differences in books written by UK authors vs US authors?

Fantasy books set in the US vs the UK?

Books published by UK publishers vs US publishers?

What exactly are you asking?
 

Paul

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Could you perhaps clarify your question?

Do you mean the differences in books written by UK authors vs US authors?

Fantasy books set in the US vs the UK?

Books published by UK publishers vs US publishers?

What exactly are you asking?

Hi Chaos
I mean the differences in books written by UK versus US writers in the fantasy genre - specifically epic or 'high' fantsay as the location is not tied to 'this' world.
A case in point might be Gemmel versus George Martin
What i'm wondering is whether there exists differnet approachs to subject matter, different areas of concern, with different emphasis (for eg emphasis on the young male singular in UK versus female or multi character or older character in US) My impression is that there is, but I'm not sure I can pinpoint it, and wonder if any others noticed a clear pattern? Important for crossover markets, and also an examination of cultural difference seeping into fan. lit. :D
 

waylander

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David Gemmell did not sell particularly well in the US. I remember talking to Del Rey (his US publishers) at WorldCon in 2005 trying to pitch them a 'Gemmellesque' adventure fantasy and they were not at all keen.
 

Paul

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Hi Waylander
Good to hear from you.
The Gemmel case is exactly my point.
I don't think the reverse is true ie US selling in UK mkts, or does anyone know different?
 

SJAB

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Hi Waylander
Good to hear from you.
The Gemmel case is exactly my point.
I don't think the reverse is true ie US selling in UK mkts, or does anyone know different?

Tim Powers has had difficulty, also Brandon Sanderson has taken a long time to sell in the UK.

Then again I believe Scott Lynch was published first in the UK.

Charlie Stross is bigger in the US than in the UK.

Swings and roundabouts I suppose you would say.
 

Brian G Turner

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David Gemmell did not sell particularly well in the US. I remember talking to Del Rey (his US publishers) at WorldCon in 2005 trying to pitch them a 'Gemmellesque' adventure fantasy and they were not at all keen.

IMO Gemmell would have conquered the US market if he'd tied his novels much closer together into a series. What we had instead was a couple of dozen novels that sometimes referenced each other, and not by much, so that they ended up working as standalones - even in "series" such as the Rigante. He only broke the pattern with his Troy trilogy, which has probably generated as much discussion as his debut Legend.

All of which I think is a complete tragedy because he was a fantastic writer, and even though he was regularly a Sunday Times bestseller, remains woefully under-valued in the fantasy genre as a whole to this day.
 

jjdebenedictis

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Roxxsmom

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My opinions are based mostly on my experiences on a forum for a British fantasy site (Fantasy faction) and a few other places.

1. British fans seem to be more about epic fantasy overall and fonder of grimdark-style fantasy. Abercrombie, Lawrence, Bakker and other writers of this type seem to be big favorites there, though the articles on the site that hosts the forum do cover a range of authors and styles of fantasy. Grimdark seems to be nearly an "all boys'" club, from what I can tell. There are women who do write dark, gritty fantasy with a high body count and dystopian flare (Kameron Hurley comes to mind), but they don't seem to be included in the subgenre, even when books I wouldn't call Grimdark myself (like Wexler's books) are included on such lists.

2. They seem to be more male-dominated than the US markets too. The FF membership is overwhelmingly male, for instance.

Other things that support this perception on my part is this article, which suggests that male submissions greatly outnumber female ones at TorUK.

Also, the yearly Strange Horizons count for 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014 (which combines SF and F together) suggests that British SF/F is more male dominated than US, at least with regards to titles subbed to Locus. sadly, the total percentage of US SF/F books by women dropped in 2014. Hard to say if this was just a glitch, or a sign of a larger trend. Interestingly, in Australia, women seem to hold a slight edge with fantasy in particular. No idea why different English-speaking countries would be different in this respect.

[edit]HA, just noted the date on the OP. Still an interesting topic. I think the new AWWC format, with its news feed makes it easier to get pulled into old and dead threads with recent replies, since I tend to skim it now and click directly on topics that look interesting, rather than accessing them through their forums the way I once did.
 
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Brian G Turner

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Yeah, I noticed it was an old thread, but I doubt the subject matter has changed much since Sue's reply. :) And I couldn't help but comment on David Gemmell, who alas died 3 years before this discussion.
 

PeteMC

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I vote we let the necro slide, this is an interesting topic. I didn't know Gemmell sold poorly in the US, that surprises me as his stuff is bloody brilliant.

One thing I've noticed is that a lot of authors have different publishers for US and UK - Mark Lawrence for instance is published by Harper Voyager in the UK and Ace Roc in the States, anyone know why this is? I'm with Angry Robot and in stores here and in the States under the same imprint, same cover etc although I think US distribution is via Penguin Random House. Not sure if it makes a difference, but it seems odd to me to have two publishers for the same book.
 

Weirdmage

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I vote we let the necro slide, this is an interesting topic. I didn't know Gemmell sold poorly in the US, that surprises me as his stuff is bloody brilliant.

One thing I've noticed is that a lot of authors have different publishers for US and UK - Mark Lawrence for instance is published by Harper Voyager in the UK and Ace Roc in the States, anyone know why this is? I'm with Angry Robot and in stores here and in the States under the same imprint, same cover etc although I think US distribution is via Penguin Random House. Not sure if it makes a difference, but it seems odd to me to have two publishers for the same book.

Most publishers only cover one territory, Angry Robot is one of the few that does that. Orbit is another, but they don't publish all books in all territories.
Usually imprints are completely different in the UK and US. They have different editorial staff in the US and UK (, and sometimes in South Africa, New Zealand, Australia, and Canada too).

It will usually make financial sense for an author to sign away the rights to each territory seperatly. In the case of Mark Lawrence, I assume that Harper Voyager gave him the best deal in the UK, while Ace Roc gave him the best deal in the US.

Not all books will be desirable to publish in all territories. There's cultural differences between the US and Europe that may mean a book that will sell well in the US won't be worth publishing in the UK, or the other way around.
A US publisher will not necessarily have the skill needed to market a book in Europe. But they may have an European sister-imprint that will have that skill.
The easiest way to see the difference in publishing between Europe and the US is to look at covers, there's often a large difference. (Robin Hobb is a good example of this.)
 
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PeteMC

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That makes sense I guess, thanks. I know what you mean about covers - Joe Abercrombie's US covers were (IMO anyway) nowhere near as nice as the UK ones, but again this probably comes down to cultural differences and what the marketing people think will sell best in each place.

The only part of America I've ever been to is the tourist trap of central Florida which I know is hardly representative of the country, it'd be interesting to see what people in say NY or LA look for in a book cover / blurb as opposed to customers in London or Glasgow.
 

Ton Lew Lepsnaci

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UK covers for adult fantasy tend to include "drawn" versions (more often found in YA), not only a photo shop execution aimed at a film oriented US market (I could be wrong, but I believe that's where a difference may stem from). I love Brandon Sanderson's covers as well as Robin Hobb covers in UK execution.
 

Roxxsmom

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I've noticed that in general, UK fantasy covers are more likely to have stylized or abstract designs that resemble heraldry, compass roses, maps, swords, patterns, or highly abstract images, while US are more likely to show a character (and yes, these days, we're seeing more and more of the photographic modification with US covers, rather than an actual painted figure).

Compare the US and UK versions of Robin Hobb's latest books, for instance.

And here are the first UK and US editions of Abercrombie's Best Served Cold. Scroll down to get to the images. And this is the current version of the US edition.

As an aside, the frequent changes in cover design between initial hardcover, trade, and mass market releases and subsequent editions makes my head spin sometimes. When I was younger, they were more likely to have the same cover for both hardcover and paperback and to keep the same one for a while. I've even had ebooks on my nook or ipad change cover design on me, and it's very unsettling (for one thing, it makes it hard for me to find in my library all of a sudden).
 
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Albedo

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Odd. Do we Commonwealthians (because Aus usually gets the UK covers) just not like looking at people or something?
 

PeteMC

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I have to say I much prefer the UK versions of all of those, especially the Robin Hobb one.
 

Maxx

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Charlie Stross is bigger in the US than in the UK.

That's interesting. Perhaps there are more disgruntled techno-people in the US. Isn't the Stross hero a disgruntled British techno-person?