Boundaries of Genre

V. Greene · Sep 17, 2009

This is going to be a somewhat blurry question, though I've been thinking about it a lot lately. I suspect it also has a blurry answer.

What are the boundaries on erotica? I mean, when does a story stop being a primarily erotic work and start being some other sort of story with a lot of erotic content?

I don't just mean the books where you tip your head to the side and say, "Well, really, if it lost the sex scenes it would still be perfectly readable coherent sci-fi," or whatever other genre. Is there a level of grim gritty realism that intrudes too far on the sexual fantasy and ruins the mood? Or does that grit make the contrast more intense?

Okay, make that a blurry set of questions. If I weren't prone to going on a bit when a keyboard is in front of me, I'd be someone else and that person wouldn't be here!

ELMontague · Sep 17, 2009

I think you're asking two questions. What makes something erotica instead of some other genrey. If the purpose of the story is to titillate, it's erotica. If the purpose is something else, but happens to titillate, then it's that other thing. More than that, I'd guess most of the writers here don't write exclusively erotica.

The other part is should fantasy be fantasic or realistic? The basic answer is 'to each his own.'

SFLP · Sep 17, 2009

I agree with EL to a point. I think that the places that publish erotica or erotic romance, well, they have their own guidelines. So it depend on the press you are submitting to.

Let's say for a given erotic, yet horribly violent story...you submit to one press, and in their mind it is too violent for erotica. You submit to another, and they don't care about the violence, and agree that it is erotic. Or you could submit to a press and have them think it isn't erotic enough. All with the same story. So the answer to "Is this erotica or is this something else?'. Well, it kind of depends on the publisher.

I don't think it's so much blurry questions, as it is blurry erotica expectations.

(I'm tired. Did that make any sense at all? lol.)

J.

V. Greene · Sep 18, 2009

Oh, two questions at the very least. And yes, SFLP, it made sense to me.

Silly example: Is erotica destroyed when your characters have to pass The Church Lady in the hall on their way to the bedroom?

I guess what I was trying to get at is, is there such a thing as a plot or theme which simply cannot be used in erotica while keeping the titillation factor that defines erotica? (Am I about to get banished to the literary-theory forum?) Personally, I like erotic moments that are in some way transgressive, but that means making sure that the transgressive nature of the act is clear, which means setting up the social pressures of your created world and your characters' personal inhibitions in the first place, which can get into some outright hairy character development and/or social commentary.

And occasionally a zombie attack, but that's something else again. You know, sometimes there's a reason there's a social taboo about fooling around next to the cemetary.

(Ooh. Plotbunny. Pardon me while I grab for a pen.)

ELMontague · Sep 18, 2009

Boundaries are set by the author, where those boundaries lay will determine your readers.

sunandshadow · Sep 18, 2009

I think some readers find grittiness erotic, while others find cheesy sappy fluff erotic - it's that Rule #34 again: everything makes someone out there horny. (I was gobsmacked to find myself horny after shopping for flowers the other day.

But then I was like oh, I guess colorful mutants are sort of my thing, especially in the context of breeding... rofl)

SFLP · Sep 18, 2009

sunandshadow said:
I think some readers find grittiness erotic, while others find cheesy sappy fluff erotic

This reminded me of my husband's favorite quote from the posts I have read to him from AW. This was from Brindle Chase:

I believe that people who are fond of rainbows and fluffy bunnies like to get their brains fucked out now and then, too. =)

I can find gritty OR fluffy erotic, or I may think it's awful. Just depends on the story/writer.

J.

Thomas_Anderson · Sep 19, 2009

sunandshadow said:
I think some readers find grittiness erotic, while others find cheesy sappy fluff erotic - it's that Rule #34 again: everything makes someone out there horny. (I was gobsmacked to find myself horny after shopping for flowers the other day. But then I was like oh, I guess colorful mutants are sort of my thing, especially in the context of breeding... rofl)

Well, flowers are essentially plant genitalia.

sunandshadow · Sep 19, 2009

Thomas_Anderson said:
Well, flowers are essentially plant genitalia.

True, I didn't think of that! lol

DrZoidberg · Sep 20, 2009

As far as I'm concerned it's got precious little to do with content. It's just a marketing label. A book about Martians impregnating earth women is sci-fi it's it's marketed as such or erotica if marketed as such. I wrote a romantic comedy. A publisher of erotica told me that they'd publish it if I made some edits to make it be in line with what their customers expect. This has less to do with genre, as pleasing that publishers customers. My novel is only erotica because it is marketed as such.

Fallon Blake · Sep 21, 2009

Thomas_Anderson said:
Well, flowers are essentially plant genitalia.

Totally off topic but I vaguely remember a book or something referring to our culture's blindness to overt sexual advances by way of flowers (plant genitalia), chocolates (long thought an aphodisiac) and a bottle of something alcoholic (surely to lower the inhibitions). Sort of makes you pause for a second.

As to where the boundaries lie, I think erotica is the same as any other genre - it's all subjective.

I have a friend who refuses to read anything with a BDSM theme. She thinks it's all sexist *insert eye roll here*. But, she happens to love werewolf erotica. I guess the idea of being dominated in a paranormal context is a turn on for her. Once you put that same dynamic in a more realistic setting, she cringes. I don't happen to think they're that different, but it all boils down to subjectivity.

Brindle Chase · Sep 21, 2009

SFLP said:
This reminded me of my husband's favorite quote from the posts I have read to him from AW. This was from Brindle Chase:
I can find gritty OR fluffy erotic, or I may think it's awful. Just depends on the story/writer.

J.

Hehehehe... I was tickled to be quoted!!!!

sunandshadow · Sep 21, 2009

Er, why would werewolf fiction automatically be about being dominated? From what I've seen, werewolf fiction is all over the place, some is male-dom but some is fem-dom, or 'man as dog, woman as human', or 'woman as tomboy adventurer who finds happiness 'in the wild with animals'...

Fallon Blake · Sep 21, 2009

sunandshadow said:
Er, why would werewolf fiction automatically be about being dominated? From what I've seen, werewolf fiction is all over the place, some is male-dom but some is fem-dom, or 'man as dog, woman as human', or 'woman as tomboy adventurer who finds happiness 'in the wild with animals'...

LOL!!!!! It's not, but the series she reads is. I should have clarified that.

SFLP · Sep 21, 2009

Fallon Blake said:
I have a friend who refuses to read anything with a BDSM theme. She thinks it's all sexist *insert eye roll here*. But, she happens to love werewolf erotica.

sunandshadow said:
Er, why would werewolf fiction automatically be about being dominated?

Fallon Blake said:
LOL!!!!! It's not, but the series she reads is. I should have clarified that.

I found this interesting. A lot of Were/Shapechanger fiction I've read does have a very dominant AlphaAlphaAlpha male or female, even if it's not quite BSDM-worthy.

When I first started reading erotica I assiduously avoided anything that was even slightly BDSM-flavored, except for the occasional "tie him/her up" play stuff that's occasionally included in a non-BDSM erotic romance.

The more I read, though, the more BDSM stuff was creeping into the stuff I was reading. I finally stopped avoiding it. "Were" stuff had something to do with it, as did vampire stories (the vamp stories I read seem to be all about control

), and even those innocuous little erotic romances that included a BDSM subplot.

It's still not something I look for intentionally, but as I said, I no longer avoid it. I've even purchased a couple of BDSM stories.

The humiliation-as-a-turn-on thing still pretty much squicks me out, though, as does anything that smacks of the "Gor" novels. lol.

J.

Boundaries of Genre

V. Greene

Ditching the pseudonym

ELMontague

SFLP

Just tell me to shut up.

V. Greene

Ditching the pseudonym

ELMontague

sunandshadow

Impractical Fantasy Animal

SFLP

Just tell me to shut up.

Thomas_Anderson

sunandshadow

Impractical Fantasy Animal

DrZoidberg

aka TomOfSweden

Fallon Blake

Brindle Chase

Dancing on the edge

sunandshadow

Impractical Fantasy Animal

Fallon Blake

SFLP

Just tell me to shut up.