Question about Middle Grade?

Brindle Chase

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I was wondering about vocabulary. If we're writing for ages 8-12... are there any guidelines as to what sort of word choices we should stay away from... obviously foul language... but I was more concerned with uncommon adjectives and adverbs.

Any advice would be mucho appreciated!
 

Smish

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You don't need to worry about vocabulary. What you need to be concerned with is VOICE.

Read lots of MG; that's the best advice I can offer.

:)Smish
 

MsJudy

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for MG, there are no limits. Kids can handle all kinds of things, if the context makes it clear and the prose is easy to read. It's only for younger readers--chapter books, early MG--that it really matters.

Smish is right. Read a lot, and you'll see. Some writers are very good at telling an exciting story using simple language. Cynthia Rylant is a good example. Other writers use a rich, literary style that isn't much simpler than fiction for adult readers. Dianna Wynne Jones or Phillip Pullman, for example.

What really matters is whether the style/voice fits the story. If you're writing a contemporary adventure story full of excitement and action, you wouldn't want to sound too much like Shakespeare.

On the other hand...one of the things that makes an MG book MG is that it gets right to the point. If a big word is the best way to express an idea, then use it. But if there's an equally effective way to say it more simply, then that's probably what you should do.
 

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Often if you do use a big or unusual word, there's a way to get in the meaning (or clues to lead to it) as well without sounding like you're teaching the reader or breaking the scene to get the message across. Just play with it a bit. Worse case, crit partners will likely flag it if it does seem out of place. :)
 

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On the big word issue: if you have a good big word that fits into your story, go ahead and use it. Kids are smart. That said, you can't fill a MG novel up with words of the SAT-vocabulary variety (like these: http://www.majortests.com/sat/wordlist-01 ). Think like Kurt Vonnegut--use simple language to tell a complex story.
 

Smish

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On the big word issue: if you have a good big word that fits into your story, go ahead and use it. Kids are smart. That said, you can't fill a MG novel up with words of the SAT-vocabulary variety (like these: http://www.majortests.com/sat/wordlist-01 ). Think like Kurt Vonnegut--use simple language to tell a complex story.

Yes, that's perfectly true, but I still think that comes down to voice. A 10-year-old probably isn't going to use SAT-level words, and with MG, you really have to write it with an MG voice. However, if the particular character is a brainiac who is studying for the National Spelling Bee, it'd be perfectly fine to use those words....
 

jennifer75

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I was wondering about vocabulary. If we're writing for ages 8-12... are there any guidelines as to what sort of word choices we should stay away from... obviously foul language... but I was more concerned with uncommon adjectives and adverbs.

Any advice would be mucho appreciated!

I'm reading to my son "Sideways Stories from Wayside School" and I noticed some dialogue tags that he wasn't familiar with so I changed them to a simple synonym. My son is 7 and a half.
 

Brindle Chase

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I'm reading to my son "Sideways Stories from Wayside School" and I noticed some dialogue tags that he wasn't familiar with so I changed them to a simple synonym. My son is 7 and a half.


Yeah, I'm actually writing this book with my oldest daughter, who is ten and some of the word choices I've made, she gives me the "what the heck does that mean" glare. Her reading level is graded at 6th grade, where she is in 5th, so she's a little ahead and what we're writing is inbetween a chapter book and a middle grade. My concern is that I don't want to use too many words that send the kids running for the dictionary. I think there should be some vocabulary that encourages them to learn something new, but I want them to enjoy reading it... not thinking of it as a spelling and vocabulary homework assignment... hehehehe

We're almost done and then we go to edit, to blend the parts she wrote with mine, so our "voice" is one... that isnt proving to be problematic... its the vocabulary.
 

Smish

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Sigh. Voice and vocabulary go hand in hand, but there's no point in arguing about it.

Good luck with the novel. I think it's great that you're working on it with your daughter.

:)Smish
 

cwgranny

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As Smish said, usually it's not a matter of "will the reader know what this means" as much as "will this remind the reader that I'm an adult and not one of them and I'm writing in an adult voice?" Because if the inclusion of a "big" work is going to jerk the reader out of the narration because the word doesn't fit the voice, that's bad. ANYTHING that jerks the reader out of the story is BAD.

This can be big glaring issues like pointless viewpoint switching or unlikely sounding dialogue, but it can also be narrative that drifts from sounding like a peer to the reader to sounding like a college-educated adult. The problem isn't that readers are too stupid to read the words, but that the narration is choppy and is going to throw the reader out of the story.

A story where an intellectual voice in the narration works, will have that voice ALL THE WAY THROUGH. A story where a peer-like, bright, casual voice works, will have the voice ALL THE WAY THROUGH. And that means the "intellectual voice" won't suddenly say: "The next day really sucked for Angela." Not because kids won't understand it but because that's not an "intellectual voice." And the story with the bright, casual peer voice won't suddenly say, "Angela glanced at the eclectic collection of medical implements" because that won't suit the rest of the voice -- NOT because the reader won't know what "eclectic" means but because the narrative voice wouldn't have used that word.
 

Brindle Chase

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I guess I'm not communicating my question very well. I'll try again.
Really not trying to be argumentative... but my question is being complicated into something far beyond what I'm asking... Anywho...

I understand voice. I really do. If I needed help there, I would have asked. Vocabulary is just a tiny part of voice. Tense, emotion, word choice, word order, sentence structure, punctuation, etc... all combine to make ones voice.... I appreciate your concern for my voice... but got it covered... really.

What I am asking, is there a level of vocabulary that is considered too high for lower middle grade and upper end chapter books for reading level? It is that aspect of voice (word choice) that I am concerned with.

For instance... is English masters degree too high? Is tenth grade too high? Is anything too high? And again, I understand about voice... I was wondering if there is a guideline, or unspoken rule that says 'for middle grade, try not to exceed X grade level of vocabulary'... if the answer is no... great, just say so. =)
 

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With middle grade, you're getting into a wider vocab territory. Don't worry too much about choice of words as much as too long sentences or chapters or not holding their attention. But then again, you wouldn't say, "He acquiesed" in an MG novel, you'd say, "He put his clothes away." (Or some such.)

You mention Sideways Stories. It's more an early chapter book, so vocab is more geared toward kids who are about on the second grade level.

When others have mentioned voice and vocab going hand-in-hand, they do. Really. Think of a ten-year-old talking. If you can't envision that, read as many MG novels as possible.
 

timp67

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Jeanne Birdsall in her smash MG book The Penderwicks has Mr. Penderwick speaking LATIN!

If that isn't a challenging/difficult choice, I don't know what is. She pulls it off beautifully. :)
 

cwgranny

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Vocabulary is just a tiny part of voice.=)

Right and if you have your voice right, vocabulary is automatically right. Though if you're using a hugely academic vocabulary because you're voice for the character is hugely literate -- you might have a characterization issue because readers may not relate to them.

Honestly, if you have voice down, you don't have an issue with vocabulary. You just ask yourself -- does this work with the voice? And you automatically have it nailed.

And if you vocabulary is sky high...yes, you need to bring it down...and it's probably indicative of other voice issues. I've never never never never never seen a manuscript where vocabulary was an issue where it WASN'T a voice issue and I have professionally critiqued THOUSANDS of children's magazine story and book manuscripts for money.

Sure, you might run into ONE word where the vocabulary crept past your voice and someone needs to share that you've got a hitch there. Or you may just have too old a voice/vocabulary/everything else and you're alienating your reader. BUT IT'S A PACKAGE DEAL.

Really, thousands...and it's always been a package deal.
 

Smish

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Right and if you have your voice right, vocabulary is automatically right. Though if you're using a hugely academic vocabulary because you're voice for the character is hugely literate -- you might have a characterization issue because readers may not relate to them.

Honestly, if you have voice down, you don't have an issue with vocabulary. You just ask yourself -- does this work with the voice? And you automatically have it nailed.

And if you vocabulary is sky high...yes, you need to bring it down...and it's probably indicative of other voice issues. I've never never never never never seen a manuscript where vocabulary was an issue where it WASN'T a voice issue and I have professionally critiqued THOUSANDS of children's magazine story and book manuscripts for money.

Sure, you might run into ONE word where the vocabulary crept past your voice and someone needs to share that you've got a hitch there. Or you may just have too old a voice/vocabulary/everything else and you're alienating your reader. BUT IT'S A PACKAGE DEAL.

Really, thousands...and it's always been a package deal.

Exactly. We're not trying to overcomplicate things, I swear. In fact, I think we're trying to tell you to simplify matters. Don't worry about vocabulary so much; you're overthinking it. Consider whether the language used fits the voice of a middle-grade aged child. If it does, vocabulary shouldn't be an issue.
 

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I have to chime in here as a reading teacher, as well.

Vocabulary is one of the most complex and intriguing areas of language development, and researchers are just beginning to scratch the surface of what it means to "know" a word. (the huge population of students for whom English is a second language, or who speak a non-standard dialect of English, has driven a lot of the research.)

Some things that apply to this discussion:

1) The single most effective way for children to acquire a rich vocabulary is to read. A lot. Ideally in the company of helpful adults who can quickly explain a word the child doesn't understand. So...if you are writing for young or reluctant readers, you must control your vocabulary, because they lack the experience necessary to access richer text. But if you are writing for more mature or avid readers, it is not a concern. If they don't know the word, they will learn it. From your well-written text.

2) There are many layers of "knowing" a word. A child may have heard the word before, without understanding it. A child may have a vague understanding of how the word is used. A child may be able to explain what the word means. Or a child may be able to give several examples of different ways a word could be used, and explain how that word means something slightly different than its synonyms. (Like explaining why "thin" is a compliment but "skinny" in not.)
So you might use a word that a young reader will more or less understand, using the context of the story, even though that same child couldn't really give a correct definition for it.

3) There is not, so far as I know, an accepted definition of "tenth-grade vocabulary" or "high-school level vocabulary." Word acquisition is so tightly interwoven with personal experience that there simply is no way to make it standard. For example, a friend and I were analyzing a story for second-graders. I knew my Spanish-speaking students would need help with "pond." She said, "Really?" Well, her school HAS a pond next to it. Familiar word.
And kids learn a surprising amount of words form unlikely places. My son was about 5 when he learned "topiary" from some cartoon or another.

4) This point closely relates to the previous 3: When politicians and others talk these days about the "achievement gap," the huge difference in test scores between poor/minority students and the white middle class, they are actually talking about one particular element that affects everything else: Vocabulary.
Study after study has shown that the children of college-educated parents start kindergarten knowing several thousand more words than children raised in poverty. Maybe tens of thousands more words. So on day one of school, when the teacher reads that first story out loud, the middle-class may know and understand every single word, while the raised-in-poverty child only understands one-fifth. Which then affects reading comprehension, which then discourages the child from reading, which means he or she falls farther behind. While that child with the rich vocabulary loves stories, can't wait to learn how to read, reads a lot from an early age, and gets exposed to thousands of new words.

Educators call it "The Matthew Effect," from the Bible quote: The rich get richer, and the poor get poorer.

That last point may not have much to do with the act of writing. But it's an interesting thing to think about, when you're considering who you want your audience to be. Writers like Barbara Park, Andrew Clements and Patricia Reilly Giff are popular with reluctant readers because they know how to tell an engaging story using fairly simple vocabulary and syntax. If that's the audience you're aiming for, then you're asking a very important question.

But as far as I know, there's no list of words or guidelines to follow, except for actual "easy readers." The only way to figure it out, I think, is experience. Studying books you admire, listening to kids speak, tweaking your writing to find the right balance.
 

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I think judscotkey makes really good points.

I tutor an eleven-year-old boy and when he was nearing the end of fifth grade, we started reading Al Capone Does My Shirts. The book has a "grade level equivalent" of 4.7 but my tutee had trouble reading it because he didn't understand a lot of the vocabulary. He hates reading and never does it on his own time (books like Diary of a Wimpy Kid being exceptions) so I could see why he needed help in the first place.
(For the record, he goes to a good school and attends a pricey afterschool, and we live in a good area.)

I don't think it'd be wrong to say children are reading less and less. My tutee has a cell phone, iTouch, DSi, Wii, and PSP. Oh wait- he lost the last one.
It's painful to try to make him read because he doesn't like it and barely ever practices.

My point? I think vocabulary does matter. Most boys don't read for leisure, and especially not during the important years when they should be developing their skills. Voice is important, but pay attention to the words you're using too... Don't dumb things down and be too simple- it's good to be challenging, as long as you have enough context (an MG isn't going to read with a dictionary!)- but I am seriously against the whole "don't sweat the vocab" thing. I think it's very important to use the right words.

I know I focused on the boy concept, but girls read more and do better in reading and writing. However, they are attracted to technology and other distractions too so I think it works for them as well.
 
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Exir

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The only vocabulary restriction I can think of is no obscenities.

Otherwise you can do anything you want. No cutoff line.
 

nitaworm

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I was wondering about vocabulary. If we're writing for ages 8-12... are there any guidelines as to what sort of word choices we should stay away from... obviously foul language... but I was more concerned with uncommon adjectives and adverbs.

Any advice would be mucho appreciated!

As far as foul language, my publisher asked that I take it out. Said it limited his marketing possiblities to middle school. It was also mentioned to me that if I had left it in, I would have still been able to go on tours to schools and such. I just wouldn't be welcomed to sale the book at the school.
 

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Most boys don't read for leisure, and especially not during the important years when they should be developing their skills.


So here's an interesting thing. I know many publishers are trying to get reluctant readers to read. Their theory is they want to create short, fast paced books, with a straightforward vocab.

My books are the opposite, sort of. They are definitely not short, the vocab is complex (with many a big complicated word thrown in), and okay, so they are fast paced. And reluctant readers love my books. Male reluctant readers love my voice.

It seems to me that if the story captures their attention, that's what matters most. Not length, and not even vocab. Now this isn't entirely true, I imagine there is a tipping point, and it isn't like I've written something so dense and with such complicated words that it belongs in the adult section instead. My view of complicated words is to treat them like you are putting a foreign language into your book. Surround said word with a sentence or two that explains what that word means: "Bonjour my friends," said John. "Hello to you too!" replied Annie.

At any rate, yes, you can use some pretty impressive words in MG, but make sure they suit the tone of the work. Don't be scared though in trying them out. It's impressive what even reluctant readers will handle. Because it's about getting them to crack open the book in the first place. Once you have them hooked, they will work hard at getting to the end.
 

Exir

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Well said, Toothpaste! It is the story as a whole that matters, so the type of vocab and voice you choose has to suit it. It's not as simple as "oh I'll just have to use simple words and short sentences and suddenly kids will be all over it!"
 

MsJudy

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Actually, these days kids read more than grown-ups do, on average. When you add in the amount of reading involved in social networking sites like Facebook, kids are looking at words all day long!

The main problem is that reading is becoming another of the areas where society is divided into haves and have-nots. The kids who do enjoy reading have such wonderful things to choose from these days! It's not unrealistic for an avid fifth-grade reader to read over 1,000,000 words in a school year. (Accelerated Reader keeps track.) But another kid in the same class may have only read 2,000 words, and those only because the teacher made her. Obviously, the kid who reads a million is learning thousands of new words. The kid who doesn't read hasn't learned any.

But for the writers, it is exactly as Toothpaste says. Kids won't choose your book just because you avoided words they don't know. Kids will choose your book because it has a story they enjoy. The new words will just kind of sneak up on them!

For what it's worth, I just pulled my copy of DIARY OF A WIMPY KID off the shelf. Here are some of the words in the first few pages: scrambling, hovering, considerate, technically, self-portrait, appreciate, dismantle...
 

Exir

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For what it's worth, I just pulled my copy of DIARY OF A WIMPY KID off the shelf. Here are some of the words in the first few pages: scrambling, hovering, considerate, technically, self-portrait, appreciate, dismantle...

These words are piece-of-cake for my younger siblings and me when I was their age. Shows that some kids have much bigger vocabularies than many people would give credit for.