Stupid copyright question.

Elegy · Sep 14, 2009

Using the names/places/characters from an MMORPG in a story. If you're just having your original characters reference them, is that okay? It's an underlying (actually, rather overt) theme in a story idea I'm batting around.

CaroGirl · Sep 14, 2009

Elegy said:
Using the names/places/characters from an MMORPG in a story. If you're just having your original characters reference them, is that okay? It's an underlying (actually, rather overt) theme in a story idea I'm batting around.

Eh? I think I just wandered into the wrong thread because I have no idea what MMORPG (expialidocious) means. I shall wander out again...

katiemac · Sep 14, 2009

Copyright-wise, I believe it's all right to mention them in passing but I'm not sure why you would want to. Me, for example, I don't know anything about RPGs and if I came across something like that in a novel and the reference was supposed to be important I wouldn't have a clue what you were trying to do. Kind of a wasted reference, and I'm going to guess the majority of your readers would have the same response as me.

Kitty Pryde · Sep 14, 2009

You can talk about them, as in, "I was a level 37 War Badger on Nights Of Killing Yur Doods Online, until I got ambushed on the Plains Of Quasi-Medieval Setting and had to start over at level 1." Just like your characters can say they watch 24 and they have the hots for Jack Bauer. The only problem is that it dates your story, I think. You would snicker at a story about MUDding or MOOing or rocking some Neverwinter Nights as if that were totally rad and state-of-the-art.

blacbird · Sep 14, 2009

CaroGirl said:
Eh? I think I just wandered into the wrong thread because I have no idea what MMORPG (expialidocious) means.

Me too. Which brings up a salient point: No matter what you do, don't assume your potential readers have knowledge of everything you do; don't speak in "code", unless you're absolutely sure your target audience will know. You quickly risk them becoming non-potential readers.

In AW, your target audience for any question or comment is a broad spectrum of folks. Make your meaning understood in that context.

caw

Duncan J Macdonald · Sep 14, 2009

Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game.

Think World of Warcraft

HTH HAND!

lucidzfl · Sep 14, 2009

I'm not sure. Aren't most places in MMORPGS named after other mythical places?

I would just write it how you want and change the names if your editor complains.

Elegy · Sep 14, 2009

Thanks, lucidzfl.

You know, for a bunch who like to answer questions with "why don't you Google it," you're awfully quick to say "I don't know what that means." :tongue

lucidzfl · Sep 14, 2009

Elegy said:
Thanks, lucidzfl.

You know, for a bunch who like to answer questions with "why don't you Google it," you're awfully quick to say "I don't know what that means."

Well, to expound a bit more.

I've played WOW, Camelot, City of Heroes, and a few other things.

I would say that a good half of the names of all the places in those video games are ripped straight from mythology. Your best bet if your'e curious about that is to look it up and see if its derived from a public domain term.

In the case of something OBVIOUSLY proprietary, say "Hyrule" from zelda, I would definitely steer clear.

My story is entitled "The Telamon." The telamon is a big nasty creature in a zone of Dark Age of Camelot. But I looked it up and it had history going back to ancient greece, so I'm pretty sure its safe.

I would definitely not let it hang you up on writing it though. If you should be so lucky as to finish your story, let alone submit it, it should be the onus of your agent/editor/publisher to look into any legal requirements.

You're the writer damnit. You're creative, not a law student!

CaroGirl · Sep 14, 2009

Elegy said:
You know, for a bunch who like to answer questions with "why don't you Google it," you're awfully quick to say "I don't know what that means."

I'm not asking the question; I'm answering it (potentially). The onus is on the person asking to be clear; not on the person answering to search for the question's meaning.

And I'm not a bunch. I'm just me.

maestrowork · Sep 14, 2009

Not necessarily a copyright issue, but trademarks. And it's not the same as mentioning Coke™ or Pepsi™. If you mention fictional places, characters, etc. that is still under copyright and trademarked, you may need permission.

Now, if they're public domain (from mythologies, biblical places, etc.) then you'll be fine.

katiemac · Sep 14, 2009

Elegy said:
Thanks, lucidzfl.

You know, for a bunch who like to answer questions with "why don't you Google it," you're awfully quick to say "I don't know what that means."

I think it's a point to take into consideration though, going back to what I said upthread. I don't know anything about RPGs aside from what they are. So if I was reading a novel where an overt theme depended on references to an RPG, I'd feel really left out of that experience. And I wouldn't buy another one of your books. Just saying--and since other people here expressed not even knowing what an RPG is, well, I have wonder about the size of your audience compared to a book that doesn't use RPG as a theme.

Not to say it can't be done. Just something to be aware of--if you're going this route, you won't be able to rely just on the RPG references to convey that theme.

Kitty Pryde · Sep 14, 2009

katiemac said:
I think it's a point to take into consideration though, going back to what I said upthread. I don't know anything about RPGs aside from what they are. So if I was reading a novel where an overt theme depended on references to an RPG, I'd feel really left out of that experience. And I wouldn't buy another one of your books. Just saying--and since other people here expressed not even knowing what an RPG is, well, I have wonder about the size of your audience compared to a book that doesn't use RPG as a theme.

Not to say it can't be done. Just something to be aware of--if you're going this route, you won't be able to rely just on the RPG references to convey that theme.

It can be done well. Go read "Anda's Game" by Cory Doctorow. http://dir.salon.com/story/tech/feature/2004/11/15/andas_game/ It's been published in lots of places. You don't have to know anything about MMORPGs to enjoy it. It's a great story that raises interesting points about modern society. It's based on a fictional slightly-futuristic game.

katiemac · Sep 14, 2009

You don't have to know anything about MMORPGs to enjoy it.

I just wanted to clarify my point. I think using MMORPGs as a theme in itself would work just fine, despite me not knowing anything about them. I'd read it. I meant I'd feel left out of a book that was referencing a specific RPG to make an important point regarding theme. Like if I was writing a book that depended on references from Harry Potter, and all of my important points wouldn't make sense if someone hadn't also read Harry Potter.

But if the references to the specific game are sprinkled here and there like a little wink to the knowledgeable MMORPG players and I can still get the point you're making, then yeah, I don't see why it can't work (and obviously, in the example Kitty gave, it has).

ETA: Maybe I'm missing the point. I was thinking the OP was considering basing a story on a MMORPG world. If instead you mean you just want your characters to be able to play a game, then yeah, zero problems there.

dustymonk · Sep 14, 2009

Elegy said:
Using the names/places/characters from an MMORPG in a story. If you're just having your original characters reference them, is that okay? It's an underlying (actually, rather overt) theme in a story idea I'm batting around.

Funny you should aks this question. I was wondering the same thing myself.

I play WoW and was considering having my MC play also. I haven't made the final decision yet but if it turns out that I do use it I am just going to contact Blizzard's legal department and ask them what's okay to use and what's not.

Maybe start there?

Elegy · Sep 14, 2009

Thanks, guys. God, sometimes I am SO GLAD I found this place.

By the by, the thing about Google was meant as a joke, not a snipe. Sorry if it was offensive, I just thought it was funny.

lucidzfl · Sep 14, 2009

Only sometimes?

Pussy.

Ardent Kat · Sep 14, 2009

Kitty Pryde said:
The only problem is that it dates your story, I think. You would snicker at a story about MUDding or MOOing or rocking some Neverwinter Nights as if that were totally rad and state-of-the-art.

What she said. Don't do it because it's going to date your work, not because of a copyright issue. If you do want to mention MMO elements, make up your own parallel game with a fictional name. Otherwise, you risk having a book that's humorously out of date within a decade.

Also, if you name a specific game and your readers aren't familiar with it, they may feel the book is too niche and put it down. If your readers are savvy about the game world you're describing, they may be too distracted by nostalgia over their own characters and adventures to focus on yours.

You also run the risk of being self-indulgent with your work. I think writers who make a novel out of their D&D campaign or based on their WoW characters tend to be too blinded by their own fondness and familiarity with the character to introduce them afresh to the reader. The WoW gamer or D&D player may have confirmation that, "This is a great story idea!" from fellow gamers, but their opinion is colored by the fun of playing the game. Like an inside joke, it may be good experientially, but it's seldom as good in the retelling.

lucidzfl · Sep 14, 2009

Ardent Kat said:
What she said. Don't do it because it's going to date your work, not because of a copyright issue. If you do want to mention MMO elements, make up your own parallel game with a fictional name. Otherwise, you risk having a book that's humorously out of date within a decade.

Also, if you name a specific game and your readers aren't familiar with it, they may feel the book is too niche and put it down. If your readers are savvy about the game world you're describing, they may be too distracted by nostalgia over their own characters and adventures to focus on yours.

You also run the risk of being self-indulgent with your work. I think writers who make a novel out of their D&D campaign or based on their WoW characters tend to be too blinded by their own fondness and familiarity with the character to introduce them afresh to the reader. The WoW gamer or D&D player may have confirmation that, "This is a great story idea!" from fellow gamers, but their opinion is colored by the fun of playing the game. Like an inside joke, it may be good experientially, but it's seldom as good in the retelling.

I' ma gr8 dm tho i nevr let da trollz kill mah peepz tho imak it hard on them with surpise traps and tell good stories that every1 likes man dont tell me i cant rite a novel coz i'll mess u iup

Mr Flibble · Sep 14, 2009

Ardent Kat said:
You also run the risk of being self-indulgent with your work. I think writers who make a novel out of their D&D campaign or based on their WoW characters tend to be too blinded by their own fondness and familiarity with the character to introduce them afresh to the reader.

Is it really sad that I made my characters into WOW toons?

As for how niche it is - considering who many million people world wide play MMOs, I wouldn't say it's niche particularly, but it a reasonable sized subset of the general population.

But it may well date you, which is reason enough to avoid it.

lucidzfl · Sep 14, 2009

I'm so glad I don't play video games.

blacbird · Sep 14, 2009

katiemac said:
Me, for example, I don't know anything about RPGs and if I came across something like that in a novel and the reference was supposed to be important I wouldn't have a clue what you were trying to do

For many of us, RPG = Rocket-propelled grenade.

caw

BigWords · Sep 14, 2009

If you feel especially passionate about using a game of some sort, why don't you create a brand new tabletop game which can be sold alongside the book. It'll bring gamers to your book, and hopefully introduce readers to the gaming world.

Ardent Kat · Sep 14, 2009

IdiotsRUs said:
Is it really sad that I made my characters into WOW toons?

I sure hope not. I've already dreamed up how the cast of my first novel would work as characters in Super Smash Bros. Brawl from what their basic attacks would look like to what their special moves would be. >_>

I think you're justified on the WoW toons thing because that's bending a game to worship your prose instead of bending your prose to worship a game.

As for how niche it is - considering who many million people world wide play MMOs, I wouldn't say it's niche particularly, but it a reasonable sized subset of the general population.

True that, but you've gotta consider the size of the cross-over interest between readers and gamers. A lot of the hardcore gamers I know aren't readers and many of the hardcore readers I know aren't gamers. Both hobbies take a lot of free time, so it's tough to find someone really savvy with both.

(Fantastic Tank Girl icon, BTW)

MaryMumsy · Sep 14, 2009

blacbird said:
For many of us, RPG = Rocket-propelled grenade.

caw

word

MM

Stupid copyright question.

Deceptively Horrific

Living the dream

Five by Five

i luv you giant bear statue

Plotting! Not Plodding!

Back from the dead

Deceptively Horrific

Back from the dead

Living the dream

Fear the Death Ray

Five by Five

i luv you giant bear statue

Five by Five

New socks make me happy.

Deceptively Horrific

Back from the dead

Kill your television

Back from the dead

They've been very bad, Mr Flibble

Back from the dead

Geekzilla

Kill your television

the original blond bombshell