Basic grammar... I guess (suffer vs. suffers)

dianeP said:

Please forgive my complete lack of grammar terminology... I hope you guys understand what I mean just the same. I'm looking for the proper way to write suffer in the following...

Okay, so if:

I can help if you suffer

and

I can help if your dog suffers

when you put the two together

I can help if you or your dog suffers

is this right? the verb follows the noun closest to it...?

Well? Maybe not necessarily the closest. If I wrote the reverse, I would tend to write:

I can help if your dog or you suffers.


Sorry for the lame example...
Does any of this make sense?
Thanks

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When it's "or," it is the noun closest to "or."

Correct:

You or your dog suffers.

You or your dogs suffer.


It makes perfect sense. I teach that at community college in the basic writing course.
I hope there is no suffering over this!

I'd use suffers in the singular instance:

That man suffers from insomnia.

I'd use suffer if there's more than one noun/object:

That man and his dog both suffer from insomnia.

-Derek

From Wren and Martin(does anyone read that grammar book anymore?), when the subject of a sentence contains an "or", the verb agrees with the noun/noun phrase closest to it.

Eg/E.g.: Either he or I am mistaken.

According to this rule, "I can help if you or your dog suffers" is correct.

By the way, if the subject of your sentence has "He/She/(noun)", "You" and "I" in it, the order in which they are placed will always be "You, he/she/noun(s), and I". So "your dog or you" would be wrong in any case.

Hope that helps

Not exactly

By the way, if the subject of your sentence has "He/She/(noun)", "You" and "I" in it, the order in which they are placed will always be "You, he/she/noun(s), and I". So "your dog or you" would be wrong in any case.

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That is generally true as a matter of style, but it is most definitely not true as an absolute rule of grammar.

Do you seriously believe that it is somehow incorrect to say "By prior agreement, he, his sister, or you will be responsible for the bill"?

In most instances the pronoun "you" comes first because if "you" is in the sentence, someone is addressing another person as "you," and it is just more natural to construct the sentence with "you" as the first element in the compound subject. But it does not have to be that way. It is a matter of style.

As for the original issue, that of singular or plural verb, the formal practice in English is to use a verb that matches the subject that is on the same side of or. Consequently, this is the correct form: "Either my friends or my enemy is correct." Although something fires off in the brain to alert us that friends does not sound just right with is, that is still the correct form, and it works better than a sentence with a plural verb ("my friends or my enemy are correct," where are does not work with the singular enemy). Technically, the correct form is justified by seeing it as elliptical for "my friends are correct or my enemy is correct."

However, despite all of this, one should avoid stylistic clumsiness like "Either he or I am mistaken." While technically correct, it is a ridiculous sentence. It is better to recast it: "Either he is mistaken or I am." Or: "Either I am mistaken or he is."

@ComicBent: You're right, the pronoun ordering IS a matter of style rather than grammar.

And as for the "or"/verb dilemma, avoiding it seems to be the best policy - as is the case with most grammatical snarls nowadays.

dianeP: You are right except the sentence "I can help if your dog or you suffers." Your loosely stated rule is correct: the verb form is dictated by the subject nearest it. Make it you suffer, not you suffers.