Miracle cure?

Madison · Sep 11, 2009

I'm reading a book called "So You Want to Write" by Brenda Ueland for my rhetoric class, and this quote in the preface caught my attention:

“I think this book will show you how I freed [my students] from clouds of automatic verbiage, from “uninterstingness.” When you get the hang of it, you will work at your writing freely, pulled toward it in fascination. You will work for hours, months, years. Novels and plays will stream out. You will never be working from grim, dry willpower but from generosity and the fascinating search for truth…"

I blogged about it today, but I guess I'm just interested in getting more opinions than I would in my comments section alone

Do you guys think it's actually possible (through Ueland's book or anything else) to learn/discover how to write freely and copiously without any drought-moments, gritted-teeth moments, discouragement?

I know this half goes back to the old "does writers block exist" debate, but I think it's still a valid question. Is what Ueland is talking about possible?

And if you've read her whole book (I haven't yet) what was your impression?

MGraybosch · Sep 11, 2009

Madison said:
Do you guys think it's actually possible (through Ueland's book or anything else) to learn/discover how to write freely and copiously without any drought-moments, gritted-teeth moments, discouragement?

Being the cynical bastard that I am, I have to say that it sounds too good to be true.

ChristineR · Sep 11, 2009

If it actually worked, and worked for everyone, it wouldn't be much of a secret by now and we all would have read it. One thing I've learned from this board is that writers use vastly different techniques and styles to create works.

On the other hand, the local library has two copies.

Danthia · Sep 11, 2009

Sure, but I doubt there's one cure-all book that does it. The more you learn and the better you get, the fewer obstacles you'll have and the more resources you'll have to drawn on when you do get stuck. But you'll always have moments of teeth-grittedness and frustration. That's just the way the creative process works. You'll always strive to be better, to fix what isn't working, to improve. And every story will be different. One will flow right out of your brain onto the page and another will be dragged kicking and screaming out of you.

Technically, anyone can write freely and copiously. Just sit down and let the words come. It's when we want them to be good enough to publish that things start to slow down. Books will only get you so far with that, and the rest you have to do yourself. There are no shortcuts

MsGneiss · Sep 11, 2009

ChristineR said:
If it actually worked, and worked for everyone, it wouldn't be much of a secret by now and we all would have read it. One thing I've learned from this board is that writers use vastly different techniques and styles to create works.

On the other hand, the local library has two copies.

Exactly. Anything that promises "an easy cure for your troubles" rings like a scam to me. If the $40 *insert diet pill name here* really did burn fat and make everyone young and beautiful, I wouldn't have to look at so many fat ugly people every day... etc.

Shakesbear · Sep 11, 2009

The writing may indeed flow - but what sort of quality would it be? What is the point of being able to produce work that no one would want to publish or read?

AnonymousWriter · Sep 11, 2009

Madison said:
Do you guys think it's actually possible (through Ueland's book or anything else) to learn/discover how to write freely and copiously without any drought-moments, gritted-teeth moments, discouragement?

No. And if it is possible, it certainly won't come from reading her book.

Rose English · Sep 11, 2009

Madison said:
Do you guys think it's actually possible (through Ueland's book or anything else) to learn/discover how to write freely and copiously without any drought-moments, gritted-teeth moments, discouragement?

And if you've read her whole book (I haven't yet) what was your impression?

Yes, I believe it's possible to discover how to write freely and copiously, but I think that she is talking about writing for pleasure in the creative act itself, not writing for validation or to impress yourself or anyone else (seeking publication). And yes, I believe her book is helping me to write freely and copiously, by inspiring me, by challenging my thoughts about 'why' I write, about what, for me, makes writing worthwhile, and encouraging me.

I've read If You Want To Write; it's one of my favourite books on writing. It seems so generous, and truthful. I have it to hand by my desk and often refer to it. The thing that particularly resonates for me is where she says "...it is the way to feel when you are writing- happy, truthful, and free, with that wonderful contented absorption of a child stringing beads in kindergarten."

This is the state of mind I am after. I don't really think about publication because I'm no-where near ready, I try not to think too much about the 'right way' to write. When I am in the moment, concentrating on nothing but capturing words that tumble out from my fingers, then I find my voice, and feel I am doing something meaningful. But I would be a liar if I said I didn't have moments of doubt, gritted teeth and all the rest of it. Anything you care about can make you anxious, I think.

Rose English · Sep 11, 2009

Shakesbear said:
What is the point of being able to produce work that no one would want to publish or read?

Isn't this how most people start?

Crayonz · Sep 11, 2009

Madison said:
Do you guys think it's actually possible (through Ueland's book or anything else) to learn/discover how to write freely and copiously without any drought-moments, gritted-teeth moments, discouragement?

I went through a period like that. When I could just sit down and pound out multiple stories without any troubles. I'm sure you went through the same thing as well for a while. Almost every writer does. Mine lasted for two years, it was great.

Of course, this was also during my first two years of writing. I was a beginner, so everything I spat out was magical and shiny to me, as opposed to the steaming pile of crud everyone else saw. Then -when someone had enough guts to tell me - I realized that my writing was bad. I didn't want to be a bad writer, gorramit! I wanted to be the best writer to ever walk this earth!

And so I started to care about what I wrote down. Once you start to care about being a "good" writer (or getting published, or whatever), you can't go back to those good ol' beginner days. Especially if you read a buncha books on writing, 'cause then your head is filled with soo much writing crap, you forget how to write in a pure "unadulterated" form (so to speak). You can try to be a beginner again and maybe you'll even get pretty darned close, but you probably won't go back completely. At some point you will get stuck and think, 'Umm... What now?', you will bicker with your characters, you will wonder if you've made any progress in writing at all, and you will grit your teeth. A lot.

So, no, I don't think it's possible.

blacbird · Sep 11, 2009

Brenda Ueland's book is occasionally over-the-top, in my opinion, but it was published about 70 years ago, and most of it remains both relevant and fresh, definitely worth a read. Entertaining, too, I might add. In many ways it's a precursor of Anne Lamott's famous Bird by Bird.

caw

Terie · Sep 12, 2009

Shakesbear said:
The writing may indeed flow - but what sort of quality would it be?

It would be rough-draft quality.

Shakesbear said:
What is the point of being able to produce work that no one would want to publish or read?

To rewrite it and turn it into something someone will want to publish or read.

Very little published work appears in the original form in which it was written. To rewrite and polish, the 'shitty first draft' (as Anne Lamott calls it) has to be written first.

scarletpeaches · Sep 12, 2009

AnonymousWriter said:
No. And if it is possible, it certainly won't come from reading her book.

Crayonz said:
So, no, I don't think it's possible.

Maybe it's not possible for you both but that doesn't mean it's not for others.

blacbird said:
Brenda Ueland's book is occasionally over-the-top, in my opinion, but it was published about 70 years ago, and most of it remains both relevant and fresh, definitely worth a read. Entertaining, too, I might add. In many ways it's a precursor of Anne Lamott's famous Bird by Bird.

caw

Bird by Bird is a self-indulgent piece of shit and I'd happily see every copy burned.

BigWords · Sep 12, 2009

scarletpeaches said:
Bird by Bird is a self-indulgent piece of shit and I'd happily see every copy burned.

As always, Peaches has an even-handed and subtle approach to the points raised on AW.

Delhomeboy · Sep 12, 2009

scarletpeaches said:
Maybe it's not possible for you both but that doesn't mean it's not for others.

Bird by Bird is a self-indulgent piece of shit and I'd happily see every copy burned.

Maybe it's a self-indulgent piece of shit for you but that doesn't mean it is for others.

And on the lines of the whole first draft thing, I usually trust the guy in my sig, who says "The first draft of anything is shit."

So basically, everything is shit.

scarletpeaches · Sep 12, 2009

Any woman who writes a book in which she lectures readers about how to be a writer, while freely admitting to listening to her friends relate family tragedies and pilfering them for her own stories because hey, everything's material, right, is beneath contempt.

Yes, we all use life experiences in our novels. I'm talking about someone who while her friend is talking is thinking, "Hey, this fucked up your life, but I'll get a short story out of it." And she makes no attempt at discretion.

It just seems insanely selfish to me.

And I've never seen any of her other books in the shops, so... :Shrug:

Libbie · Sep 12, 2009

Madison said:
Do you guys think it's actually possible (through Ueland's book or anything else) to learn/discover how to write freely and copiously without any drought-moments, gritted-teeth moments, discouragement?

I think it's possible to significantly reduce those moments, but changing factors in our lives will always distract us or depress us, and make even the most joyous task a drag once in a while.

The key is to have a habit of discipline, so that you keep writing even through the drags. Even if the drags are reduced.

MGraybosch · Sep 12, 2009

scarletpeaches said:
Yes, we all use life experiences in our novels. I'm talking about someone who while her friend is talking is thinking, "Hey, this fucked up your life, but I'll get a short story out of it." And she makes no attempt at discretion.

It just seems insanely selfish to me.

I have no problem with selfishness; it's the lack of discretion that gets me. If you're going to mine your experiences for materials, do it in private. Don't do it while your friend is talking to you; that's just rude.

zornhau · Sep 12, 2009

Madison said:
I'm reading a book called "So You Want to Write" by Brenda Ueland for my rhetoric class, and this quote in the preface caught my attention:

I blogged about it today, but I guess I'm just interested in getting more opinions than I would in my comments section alone

Do you guys think it's actually possible (through Ueland's book or anything else) to learn/discover how to write freely and copiously without any drought-moments, gritted-teeth moments, discouragement?

I know this half goes back to the old "does writers block exist" debate, but I think it's still a valid question. Is what Ueland is talking about possible?

And if you've read her whole book (I haven't yet) what was your impression?

Ueland was an essayist and journalist with only two actual books in print, niether novels. (For a writer on writing with credentials, see Dwight V Swain.)

Ardent Kat · Sep 12, 2009

scarletpeaches said:
Yes, we all use life experiences in our novels. I'm talking about someone who while her friend is talking is thinking, "Hey, this fucked up your life, but I'll get a short story out of it." And she makes no attempt at discretion..

Don't you think she had said friends' permission to write what she did? I do.

scarletpeaches · Sep 12, 2009

Maybe she did. I hope so. But the way it was written made her appear mercenary, leaping on her friends' misfortunes for the good of her own career.

I know far more people who dislike Bird by Bird than those who like it, which makes me wonder about Lamott's communication skills. If she's not mercenary, selfish and indiscreet, there's a disconnect between what she is and the way she presents herself in this book to the majority of readers.

Ardent Kat · Sep 12, 2009

As for the whole "magic fix" book, it's kind of like Dumbo's feather. The power needs to be in the writer all along or no fix will help, and each writer's temperament is different as to which tip will frame things in such a way that finally "clicks."

I think I've skimmed tips and tidbits from at least a dozen different sources that all piles up and keeps me writing a book/year. My kickstart was Julia Cameron's "The Artist's Way" for helping me overcome self-doubt and perfectionism (and joyfully write the damn first draft like the OP's book is pushing for). Others think The Artist's Way is complete drivel and I can understand that different perspective. I'd never push it as a book that works for everybody, but I'd still recommend it to similar-minded friends. (And my husband and two friends have benefited greatly already)

Arkie · Sep 12, 2009

Curiousity got the best of me so I went down to Barnes and Noble this morning and bought Brenda Ueland's book, subject of this thread. I have read to page 57 and keep getting the image of Natalie Goldberg ("Writing Down the Bones") sitting outside in an artist commune in Taos, New Mexico, staring into the sun and chewing peyote buds.

lucidzfl · Sep 12, 2009

Lets try another analogy.

"In this book I shall show you how to master the game of basketball. You will sink three pointers, perfect the freethrow, and learn to slam dunk even if you are but 4 foot tall. All you need is to take these concepts, and practice."

Get the point? Sure, it can give you the tools, but everyone hits stumbling blocks sometimes, and its "shere dry determination" that move us past that day when none of us could sink even a single three pointer.

Hence the book is full of shit. Dry, uninteresting, shit.

Aschenbach · Sep 12, 2009

How-to-Write books are pretty much worthless, in my opinion. If you read them just out of interest, because the author has also written fiction you enjoy, then fair enough. I find it interesting to learn about other writers' processes.

But anyone who buys these books (especially when they are written by people with no obvious expertise in writing) expecting the secrets of writing to be unlocked are going to be disappointed (and several pounds poorer to boot).

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