Is it essential to spell out “what the story’s about”, before it can be written?
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God no. This is simply the case of outline or no outline, really. When I start a new manuscript, I literally start with the first word. And then I add the second. And then the third. People start with a character or a situation or nothing. It is never essential to spell out what the story is about. It is a way...but not the way.
What sort of a question is that?
Essential? To spell out to whom? Yourself? Think about it... If you've written a story -did you spell it out before you were able to write it? Even if you did it doesn't make it essential that everybody else has to.
Essential? To spell out to whom? Yourself? Think about it... If you've written a story -did you spell it out before you were able to write it? Even if you did it doesn't make it essential that everybody else has to.
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I was listening to an interview with Ian Rankin the other day and he says he writes to discover his stories i.e. no outlining. He seems to have done well out of it.
By the way--it's a good question. One I would have asked sooner or later and it does interest me if others outline or not.
By the way--it's a good question. One I would have asked sooner or later and it does interest me if others outline or not.
I'll be the opposite here.
Absolutely, Yes.
Now, "spell out" varies per person, and I don't think you need to know every detail before you write it. The story will develop as you discover more about your characters and their problem.
I do think you need to know your protag and their problem, bare minimum. It can be really simple, ie, A girl who's getting bullied at school decides to take revenge, or, a man has 12 hours to save his family from a kidnapper, but you need some idea of the story's general form. Otherwise, I don't think you're writing a story, you're doing a character piece. Nothing wrong with that if that's how you find your story, but it's not a story unto itself.
Absolutely, Yes.
Now, "spell out" varies per person, and I don't think you need to know every detail before you write it. The story will develop as you discover more about your characters and their problem.
I do think you need to know your protag and their problem, bare minimum. It can be really simple, ie, A girl who's getting bullied at school decides to take revenge, or, a man has 12 hours to save his family from a kidnapper, but you need some idea of the story's general form. Otherwise, I don't think you're writing a story, you're doing a character piece. Nothing wrong with that if that's how you find your story, but it's not a story unto itself.
The most important thing to learn is there's no right way that works for everyone. That knowledge is tremendously freeing. I used to think there was something wrong with me because I couldn't outline. Now I know better.
What does "spell out 'what the story is about'" mean? Seriously.
Does that mean figure out the entire plot and all the intricate details before you write a word? Or does that mean the author knows what the original spark--the "golden ruler" of what is the story and what isn't the story is? Or something else?
I think every author has to have a certain knowledge or feel for what the story is before they can write a word. It might be something they can put into words, it might not be. How much they "spell out" that knowledge is totally individual to both the author and the story.
Personally, all I need to know is that inspirational spark and I'm totally good to go. I can, and have, made up outlines and other such thing to straighten out my thoughts, but I usually don't do that until I've started writing and gotten a better grasp of the story in my mind first.
Does that mean figure out the entire plot and all the intricate details before you write a word? Or does that mean the author knows what the original spark--the "golden ruler" of what is the story and what isn't the story is? Or something else?
I think every author has to have a certain knowledge or feel for what the story is before they can write a word. It might be something they can put into words, it might not be. How much they "spell out" that knowledge is totally individual to both the author and the story.
Personally, all I need to know is that inspirational spark and I'm totally good to go. I can, and have, made up outlines and other such thing to straighten out my thoughts, but I usually don't do that until I've started writing and gotten a better grasp of the story in my mind first.
No. I wouldn't even begin to know how to do that, or even what it would really mean to do that. I discover my stories along with my characters. I never know where a story is going to go before I write. it.
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You must have SOME idea about what you want to write before you start, otherwise you'll end up like Jack Nicholson in The Shining "All work and no play makes Jack a dull..."
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To me, the question was on a par with asking oil painters if it's essential to charcoal a drawing before starting to paint.
I think you knew exactly the gist of answers to your question before you posted it. If you didn't....then good old Hadrian for keeping you on his side of the wall.
I think you knew exactly the gist of answers to your question before you posted it. If you didn't....then good old Hadrian for keeping you on his side of the wall.
I have to disagree about that bare minimum mentioned as a requirement for starting to write a novel.
I, and I'm sure others too, have started a novel with not a clue what the story was going to be, or who the characters would be. I just started to write - and that's happened twice.
Maybe it depends upon genre, but to my mind there is no blanket absolute minimum one needs to know.
The trail may be winding and different but the journey is just as fascinating and the end result the same.
I, and I'm sure others too, have started a novel with not a clue what the story was going to be, or who the characters would be. I just started to write - and that's happened twice.
Maybe it depends upon genre, but to my mind there is no blanket absolute minimum one needs to know.
The trail may be winding and different but the journey is just as fascinating and the end result the same.
Maybe some people can truly write an interesting novel without working out the kernel of conflict that drives the story, but I sure as hell can't.
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It's good to know why you're writing this, what's interesting about the story, and where you want to take it. What is it about? Why?
But is it necessary to know everything? No. I'm 110K into my WIP now and I still don't know exactly what it is about.
On the other hand, I know exactly what my third book is going to be able. Beginning, middle and end.
But is it necessary to know everything? No. I'm 110K into my WIP now and I still don't know exactly what it is about.
On the other hand, I know exactly what my third book is going to be able. Beginning, middle and end.
Oh, just as I suspected, it's Yet Another Outline Vs. "Wing It" thread. This is even a question in the personal profile section.
Outlining is analogous to "structured programming"/"top-down programming" as popularized about three decades ago - is there a writing analogy to the more modern Object-Oriented Programming?
ETA: I can imagine characters as objects and their actions as methods. I should write a book: "Novel Writing for C++ Programmers."
Outlining is analogous to "structured programming"/"top-down programming" as popularized about three decades ago - is there a writing analogy to the more modern Object-Oriented Programming?
ETA: I can imagine characters as objects and their actions as methods. I should write a book: "Novel Writing for C++ Programmers."
What's it going to be able to do, Ray, outline itself?
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Responses like that make it easier to understand why we shipped all the crims off to the other side of the world.
Before it can be written - or as I interpreted the question - before one can commence writing - is the issue.
There obviously comes a point where one knows where one is heading, with whom and why etc., but to my mind these are not blanket essential pre-requisites for starting to write what ends up as a novel.
There obviously comes a point where one knows where one is heading, with whom and why etc., but to my mind these are not blanket essential pre-requisites for starting to write what ends up as a novel.
I agree. I couldn't move forward until I realized what my character wanted and why he needed to change. Some writers discover this more easily along the way, but I also think I saved myself a great deal of rewriting and wasted pages by understanding from the start this one thing about my character.
Yes, you definitely need to know to some degree where a story is going. I prefer to know the ending myself, but by no means is it supposed to be set in stone or does it need to be written down.
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Seconding the yes crowd, based on my own experiences.
When I did my first cowritten novel, we jumped into it without identifying what the story was. All we had was the idea, which was battle on a mountain in the middle of a blizzard. From there, we put together a 350 page novel, wrestled a lot with the query and synopsis, neither of which worked very well. Sent it off to agents. 100% failure rate. No agent even requested chapters.
Joined a critique group and discovered we had a collection of scenes that weren't tied together with anything. No story. I realized that was the reason we'd had such a difficult time with the snyopsis and query. It's very hard trying to boil a story down into a couple hundred words when there's no story.
We spent close to 30 revisions putting the story into the story--not something I would care to repeat. Query was a lot easier to write, as was the synopsis. At which point it didn't end HEA--we broke up during the submission phase.
But I took what I learned to the next one and came up with a few sentences up front as to what the story was about. Just really something to give me a direction or focus. The original idea was fight on an island and auction. Identifying the general story made it more than a collection of scenes. The result is that the overall structure of the story is pretty solid, and I haven't had to make the same kinds of revisions (there's been different problems!).
When I did my first cowritten novel, we jumped into it without identifying what the story was. All we had was the idea, which was battle on a mountain in the middle of a blizzard. From there, we put together a 350 page novel, wrestled a lot with the query and synopsis, neither of which worked very well. Sent it off to agents. 100% failure rate. No agent even requested chapters.
Joined a critique group and discovered we had a collection of scenes that weren't tied together with anything. No story. I realized that was the reason we'd had such a difficult time with the snyopsis and query. It's very hard trying to boil a story down into a couple hundred words when there's no story.
We spent close to 30 revisions putting the story into the story--not something I would care to repeat. Query was a lot easier to write, as was the synopsis. At which point it didn't end HEA--we broke up during the submission phase.
But I took what I learned to the next one and came up with a few sentences up front as to what the story was about. Just really something to give me a direction or focus. The original idea was fight on an island and auction. Identifying the general story made it more than a collection of scenes. The result is that the overall structure of the story is pretty solid, and I haven't had to make the same kinds of revisions (there's been different problems!).
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