What type of writer are you...

Samuel Dark · Jul 5, 2005

I was argueing with a friend that stories should be plot-driven. Yet, he says they should be character-driven. In reality, now that I have had time to think -- stories should be plot-driven and character-driven. But what do you guys think? I will always write plot-driven stories, and try my best to help the story along with the characters. But, just wondering what The Cooler thinks.

katiemac · Jul 5, 2005

I like reading character-driven novels, but to me that means how and why the characters react to the elements of the plot.

maestrowork · Jul 5, 2005

both.

Jamesaritchie · Jul 5, 2005

Stories

I like a story with good characters and good plot, but if I had to pick, I'd choose characters every last time. For me, good stories are always about people, and plot is only a device used to reveal character.

Good plot is a very nice thing to have, but I think it's people most readers care about. Long after plot is forgotten, great characters are remembered, and when a story really means something to readers, when it really touches their lives, it won't be because of the plot.

unthoughtknown · Jul 5, 2005

I read that question as asking someone whether they'd prefer a great story with weak characters, or strong characters in an ordinary story?

I think the combination is necessary.

hpoppink · Jul 5, 2005

As a reader, I love well-developed characters who experience personal growth, which happens within the context of a well-orchestrated plot.

As a writer, I start with a character idea, then I add the setting and the action. I suppose that classifies me as a character-driven writer.

aruna · Jul 5, 2005

Jamesaritchie said:
I like a story with good characters and good plot, but if I had to pick, I'd choose characters every last time. For me, good stories are always about people, and plot is only a device used to reveal character.

Good plot is a very nice thing to have, but I think it's people most readers care about. Long after plot is forgotten, great characters are remembered, and when a story really means something to readers, when it really touches their lives, it won't be because of the plot.

This is basically how I feel about it, too. I don't like plot-driven stories; I woulddefine plot-driven as stories where it doesn't matter at all what the characters are like; they are simply vehicles through which the story is told. They could be anybody. the Da Vinci Code, for instance, is plot driven, and perhaps that's why I really can't remember even the names of the characters in it!

It's chaarcters that draw me into a story, and it's because they are who they are that the story unfolds, changes them, makes itself memorable. I do like a strong story; but the story has to come as a RESULT of who the characters are.

Mistook · Jul 5, 2005

Plot is the interaction of characters. If the characters are cardboard, the plot will be a let-down. On the other hand, you can have the deepest characters in the universe, but if there's no real conflict to resolve... It's a big yawn fest.

Jamesaritchie · Jul 6, 2005

plot

Mistook said:
Plot is the interaction of characters. If the characters are cardboard, the plot will be a let-down. On the other hand, you can have the deepest characters in the universe, but if there's no real conflict to resolve... It's a big yawn fest.

Well, there must be some sort of plot, something of importance to resolve, but in all honesty, I think pretty much any plot will do, as long as there is some conflict, something of importance happening.

If there isn't, there's no story, and hence no great characters. There are those who say most literary fiction has no plot, but I often find the best plots of all in literary fiction.

I suspect how good or bad, strong or slight, a plot is depends largely on what an individual expects. I know those who believe that if nothing blows up and no one is killed, the plot is boring.

brinkett · Jul 6, 2005

I write character-driven stories, but as a reader, I'll read both character-driven and plot-driven. Sometimes I just want an easy read where things blow up.

However, as James said, it's the characters I always remember from my favorite books. Plots are soon forgotten.

Roger J Carlson · Jul 6, 2005

I've been reading the book: Story, by Robert McKee. McKee maintains that the distinction between "plot-driven" and "character-driven" is artificial. All stories are are plot and character driven. His take is that "character" is defined by the internal motivations that makes a story character what he is. Is he a moral person? Immoral? Loving? Unkind? And so forth. Plot, on the other hand, is the method by which the author reveals a character's "character" to the reader.

The biblical story of the Good Samaritan is an example. A jewish man is beaten and robbed on the road. A priest on the road sees the wounded man. But he is on his way to the temple and has been ritually cleaned. Touching the man will make him unclean, so he passes by. A Levite also sees the man and passes by. But then a despised Samaritan sees the wounded man. He stops and helps the man, binds his wounds, takes him to an inn, and pays for the man's care.

The "character" of each of these characters is revealed through their actions, i.e. the plot. The priest and Levite (although they may have good reasons for passing by) reveal their "character" as uncaring. The Samaritan reveals his "character" as a caring person through his actions of taking care of the man.

McKee's book is written with screenwriters in mind, but I think it applies equally to novels.

A.REX · Jul 6, 2005

I'm with Mistook.
True, people relate with characters but I like new ideas. I like plot. I love plot! There are too many books out there already with the connect-the-dots forumula writing and in my opinion they drag and are boring. I've figured out what is going to happen by page 12, and reading the rest like listening to your mother's "I told you so" lecture.
Give me something new. I'm here to be entertained. I might love your characters, but if your story bores me I'm going to throw you into the Nicholas Sparks pile with the rest of my I got bored books.

Azure Skye · Jul 6, 2005

I prefer both and would like to think I'm writing both but we'll see.

veinglory · Jul 6, 2005

It doesn't really matter who drives so long as the other one goes along for the ride. I a definitely a plot writer but my characters are fully developed and the reader probably couldn't tell which was the main source of my motivation, plot or character.

ANNIE · Jul 6, 2005

IMHO I don't think a book is worth reading, (or writing ) without both-strong characters and strong plot.

Carlene · Jul 6, 2005

I do think you need both, but people love to read about interesting characters. Sometime when you're thinking/resting your hands/wasting time, go to amazon and read some of the bad reviews - the ones with one and two stars. The main complaint is almost always that the characters were flat and unengaging.
When you think of "Gone with the Wind" what's the first thing to come to mind? A civil war story? A saga of the south? Nope, Rhett and Scarlett.

stranger · Jul 6, 2005

Depending on genre, I don't think you need great characters. In particular the thriller market. Someone mentioned the DiVinci Code. Clive Cussler also comes to mind for cardboard characters. Perhaps the mystery genre is another one. I haven't read mysteries since my Agatha Christie days but from what I can remember Hercule and Miss Marple were caricatures and the books were all about the whodunnit.

I also agree that if you have interesting characters, the plot can be simple. Add the characters, a smidgeon of conflicit and stir. I just read a book in which there wasn't much conflicit and even that seemed contrived. The characters were excellent, though. It wasn't the best book in the world but much better than the last Cussler I read.

I must say I do, in general, divide books into character and plot driven and prefer the character driven ones. Not all books are so clear-cut, the best ones are both.

Princesstilly · Jul 6, 2005

I go for characters first

I started with a line from a song and built a character around that snippet...what does that phrase mean, who might it refer to. Who is feeling that way and why?

I think it's a taste issue, since I tend to read character-driven fiction most often.

Leanne

(I'm finally back working on my novel again. Up at 5:00 am for the past two days working on Chapter 6. Hope to have the first draft done by September. Wish me luck!)

Nateskate · Jul 6, 2005

I always start with the plot, but once characters come, they can influence the plot.

We had a similar conversation on the fantasy board, that many old time stories had beloved characters, and what were the current "beloved characters"?

I love character driven stories. But they languish without a plot. Even reality t.v is scripted because characters without any guidance become boring. You have to create situations that brings out the interesting.

aruna · Jul 6, 2005

Nateskate said:
You have to create situations that brings out the interesting.

I would rather say: interesting characters (and why write about characters that are NOT interesting?) create their own interesting situations - YOU don't have to do it!

HConn · Jul 6, 2005

Real estate sales should be plot-driven.

Cars should be character-driven.

Narrative fiction should be story-driven.

It's the clash of characters and plot that makes an interesting narrative. Both must drive.

pconsidine · Jul 6, 2005

While it's always good to try to create both, I think it's fairly clear that it isn't necessary. For example, I can't think of a Tom Clancy novel (with the possible exception of The Hunt for Red October) where the characters are much of a motivating force. The DaVinci Code is another example of what I'd call a plot-driven novel - sure the characters perform, but it's the sequence of events that drive the story.

There really isn't any "should" to it. You write what you can write. Plot-driven stories aren't likely to be added to the canon of classic literature, but they're perfectly good for making a career.

wideawakesoh · Jul 7, 2005

H Conn's response was brilliant. He hit the nail on the head, but I'd like to expand on it just a little bit here. There's nothing wrong with a character driven story, although sometimes if you're only thinking about a character's inner turmoil there's not much outer turmoil to make it interesting. Nothing wrong with a plot-driven story either (John Grisham's made a living off them for over a decade), but sometimes the characters can feel like cardboard in the reader's mind. So, obviously the answer to a really great novel is both. If you're the type of writer who likes to think long and hard about what they're going to write (I'm not the type, but I know they exist in abundance), this isn't as hard for you. You can start thinking about a character and think about what direction you'd like him or her to go, then you can come up with ways for them to get there, thus filling in the plot of your character driven story. If you're better at thinking about plot, you can find some interesting situations to place your characters in, and with a little luck and a lot of keystrokes our characters will develop out of the mess you've put them in because now they have to find a way out. These are both great ways to work, but they're not my way. Here's my way:
The great Stephen King has said many times that stories are like fossils and we are the archeologists charged with excavating them. How much of the fossil we can get out of the ground intact is how good and rich the story will be. When I write, I don't think very much. Usually I don't know what's going to happen until the very minute I'm writing it, and sometimes even then I don't know, I just keep digging and see what comes up. With that philosophy in mind, my first novel (currently on its way to publication, knock wood) has been praised over and over for its thrilling plot and its well developed characters. I have no secret to achieving this, I just came up with the story and the characters, the themes, and the mood all came along in a neat little row. So there are three ways for you to develop your story, but please don't misunderstand and think those are the only three. Don't write any way but your own, and if it's good, it'll be because you made it good, not because you listened to some primadonna on a web forum.

Keep writing,
wideawakesoh

"Those who dream by day are cognizant of many things that escape those who dream by night."
Edgar Allen Poe

I LOVE THIS FREAKIN' BANANA!!! :banana:

MillyBecker · Jul 7, 2005

I like to write character-driven pieces. I've found that if my characters are deep enough then it drives the plot. Sometimes it drives it in places I didn't even see coming!

Jamesaritchie · Jul 7, 2005

Plot

HConn said:
Real estate sales should be plot-driven.

Cars should be character-driven.

Narrative fiction should be story-driven.

It's the clash of characters and plot that makes an interesting narrative. Both must drive.

I tend to agree, though I think you have to be aware of the differences between story and plot, and that the best story ever written still depends on the quality of the characters. If no one cares about the characters, no one is likely to care about the story, no matter how well it's written.

What type of writer are you...

Samuel Dark

katiemac

Five by Five

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray

Jamesaritchie

unthoughtknown

practical experience, FTW

hpoppink

aruna

On a wing and a prayer

Mistook

Neverending WIP

Jamesaritchie

brinkett

Elder Scrolls devotee

Roger J Carlson

Moderator In Name Only

A.REX

Azure Skye

Huh?

veinglory

volitare nequeo

ANNIE

Carlene

New kid, be gentle!

stranger

practical experience, FTW

Princesstilly

Nateskate

aruna

On a wing and a prayer

HConn

Whore for genre

pconsidine

Too Adorkable for Words

wideawakesoh

MillyBecker

Jamesaritchie