So why is it

Melisande · Sep 2, 2009

that atheists do not meet up and 'congregate'?

Wouldn't we benefit from having our own recignized discussion forums meeting places and magazines, just like any kind of religious group?

Seems to me that 'going to Church on Sunday' is a highly respected thing to do. Why shouldn't (wouldn't-couldn't) atheists have the same kind of gathering place to meet and talk about OTHER stuff than religion - like fundamental truths as WE perceive them; philosophy; personal jouneys; spirituality outside the religious arena.

Why don't we? And if we do - please tell me where!

AMCrenshaw · Sep 2, 2009

Hard to rally behind nonbelief -- when there is a significant number of atheists and a significant number of atheists that are both close in proximity (referring to non-cyber interactions here) and in positive thought we may very well see more atheistic congregations.

AMC

Ruv Draba · Sep 2, 2009

I'm with AMC, Mel. A culture is built by people who have common ground, setting aside their differences and sacrificing to perpetuate something bigger than themselves. Atheism alone isn't a basis for common ground so it's not a seed for culture.

When I look at my home ground, I think that it relates to compassion and reason being put above dogma and superstition. It turns out that this ground isn't shared by all atheists, and some who share it are theists. In every religion I've encountered people who think as I do; it's just that they don't dominate in many faiths. A lot of the time I'd rather hang with tolerant theists than intolerant atheists, say.

I share your feeling though. I think it's important that people have some sort of fellowship regardless of their beliefs. Perhaps a good starting point is what you do believe in. So, bluntly: what is it?

zornhau · Sep 3, 2009

Humanists do.

Higgins · Sep 3, 2009

They do meet up and do things together. At least they did 40 years ago in New Mexico.

stephenf · Sep 3, 2009

I think Atheists,or people who believe they are Atheists, find it hard to find a common ground.The word has too many emotive and misunderstood ides attached to it. For instance, I shudder,no offence Melisande, at the idea of congregating to discus spirituality.It just sounds like a half hearted religion. May be if you could define your own philosophy more clearly and give it a new name you would have a better chance of meeting like minded people.

Higgins · Sep 3, 2009

stephenf said:
I think Atheists,or people who believe they are Atheists, find it hard to find a common ground.The word has too many emotive and misunderstood ides attached to it. For instance, I shudder,no offence Melisande, at the idea of congregating to discus spirituality.It just sounds like a half hearted religion. May be if you could define your own philosophy more clearly and give it a new name you would have a better chance of meeting like minded people.

It's true. Since I have become a strict Shinto Agronomist I heve met no like-minded people. This is because no one has the mind of a Shinto Agronomist, not even me.
I have met a few people with unusually large lung capacities lately, but I hope this has nothing to do with my new religious orientation.

MGraybosch · Sep 3, 2009

Melisande said:
Why don't we? And if we do - please tell me where!

I might be an atheist, but I speak only for myself when I ask the following: Why in the names of all the demons ever worshiped by man would I want to get together with other atheists just to talk about how we don't believe in gods?

I think that that's boring. That's a waste of time. That's the sort of thing religious people do, in order to reinforce the groupthink. I don't care if it's respectable when religious people do it; I want no part of it.

veinglory · Sep 3, 2009

For the same reason there aren't clubs for people who don't do yoga.

Ruv Draba · Sep 3, 2009

veinglory said:
For the same reason there aren't clubs for people who don't do yoga.

I want to join that club!

veinglory · Sep 3, 2009

LOL. One of the benefits of giving up religion, or yoga for that matter, is that it frees up some time in your week.

MGraybosch · Sep 3, 2009

Ruv Draba said:

That's not how you do a 69.

Melisande · Sep 3, 2009

Ruv Draba said:
So, bluntly: what is it?

Equally bluntly - nothing!

Melisande · Sep 3, 2009

stephenf said:
I think Atheists,or people who believe they are Atheists, find it hard to find a common ground.The word has too many emotive and misunderstood ides attached to it. For instance, I shudder,no offence Melisande, at the idea of congregating to discus spirituality.It just sounds like a half hearted religion. May be if you could define your own philosophy more clearly and give it a new name you would have a better chance of meeting like minded people.

Well, thing is that I don't really believe in anything. I do, however, earnestly believe that atheists are not excluded from the "spiritual" world of perception and insight. Reason for this argument is that I have such a hard time accepting the notion that atheists are emotionally 'dead'.

In my world (perhaps not shared by too many others), an atheist is just as emphatical as anybody else. In short; a person willing to share sympathy, empathy, substancial aid in terms of good-will; monetary aid and whatever qualities are usually subscribed to Christians only.

I firmly believe that if the religious groups on this planet feel that they have cornered the market of 'spiritualism', then where does that leave me?

I ponder life, death, philosophy, spirituality and what have you, just as anybody else. What separates me from 'religious' people. or 'believers' in some kind of 'higher authority", is the fact that I ponder these things from a different point of view. I try and look at life as it is; primitive, non-negotional and somehow ultimate.

I do not see why people could not sit down and talk about their life experiances in a manner that does not include 'devine intervention'.

I don't know if other atheists feel the way I do; one reason being that I have nowhere to meet up with them, but I DO feel that I have a had experiances enough to have developed a spiritual approach to life itself, without having to subscibe to some kind of pre-written template.

MGraybosch · Sep 3, 2009

Melisande said:
I firmly believe that if the religious groups on this planet feel that they have cornered the market of 'spiritualism', then where does that leave me?

If believers have cornered the market on "legitimate" spirituality, then you and I partake of "bootleg" spirituality. I find meaning through my work; I don't need a divine plan to give my life meaning when I am capable of deciding upon a purpose for myself.

As I sometimes tell Christians who want to convert me: "I don't need to be saved. I don't need a divine plan. I don't need your god."

Melisande · Sep 3, 2009

MGraybosch said:
I might be an atheist, but I speak only for myself when I ask the following: Why in the names of all the demons ever worshiped by man would I want to get together with other atheists just to talk about how we don't believe in gods?

I think that that's boring. That's a waste of time. That's the sort of thing religious people do, in order to reinforce the groupthink. I don't care if it's respectable when religious people do it; I want no part of it.

I get where you are coming from. But I still think (just having moved to the very core of the US Bible Belt) that it would have been nice to see a sign NOT saying; "Believe in Christ or ELSE!!!" - That sign representing the (only) way to approach the community.

Still I am convinced that there must be a group here of individuals sharing my thoughts. Where would I find them, though, without a common meeting place???

MGraybosch · Sep 3, 2009

Melisande said:
I get where you are coming from. But I still think (just having moved to the very core of the US Bible Belt) that it would have been nice to see a sign NOT saying; "Believe in Christ or ELSE!!!" - That sign representing the (only) way to approach the community.

Well, all I can say is that the First Amendment can be a pain in the ass; it even allows demon-ridden bigots of the "Accept Christ or burn in Hell" school to have a say. Unfortunately, the more reasonable Christians aren't willing to lay the smack down on the bacon-loving Pharisees who give Christianity as a whole a bad name.

I recently moved to Pennsylvania, myself, and while it's not the Bible Belt, religion is more publicly prominent here than I am used to in New York and Connecticut. I simply react to invitations to come to church by saying, "Thanks, but I am not a churchgoing man." I try to avoid using the word "atheist", but if a believer forces my hand they will suffer for having done so.

As far as I'm concerned, freedom of religion also means freedom from religion. I don't wait for the government to give me that freedom; I take it with my own hands as my rightful due.

Melisande said:
Still I am convinced that there must be a group here of individuals sharing my thoughts. Where would I find them, though, without a common meeting place???

You already did. It's called the Internet. Unfortunately, that's likely to be the best you can do in the US.

Ruv Draba · Sep 3, 2009

Melisande said:
Well, thing is that I don't really believe in anything. I do, however, earnestly believe that atheists are not excluded from the "spiritual" world of perception and insight. Reason for this argument is that I have such a hard time accepting the notion that atheists are emotionally 'dead'.

In my world (perhaps not shared by too many others), an atheist is just as emphatical as anybody else. In short; a person willing to share sympathy, empathy, substancial aid in terms of good-will; monetary aid and whatever qualities are usually subscribed to Christians only.

Theists don't have a monopoly on compassion, conscience or morality. I've been arguing elsewhere that these are things better developed by enquiry than set in the cement of dogma.

Theists don't have a monopoly on joy, delight, awe or ecstasy. Those things come from the arts -- sometimes with religious subjects, sometimes not.

But if you want to explore compassion, conscience and ethics, you'll likely want to hang with philosophers. For experiences of joy etc... you'll hang with artists and crafters. But only some of the aforementioned are atheistic, and theists produce a lot of good non-dogmatic thought about compassion, conscience and ethics, and one helluva lot of beautiful art. And there's more of them of course -- so their availability and output are higher.

As a humanist I enjoy the company of secular and sectarian humanists. I also enjoy the company of philosohers and artists -- even when I disagree with them half the time.

I DO feel that I have a had experiances enough to have developed a spiritual approach to life itself, without having to subscibe to some kind of pre-written template.

Course you do. I'd draw your attention to the name of this forum.

So why not write about it here?

Melisande · Sep 3, 2009

MGraybosch said:
As far as I'm concerned, freedom of religion also means freedom from religion. I don't wait for the government to give me that freedom; I take it with my own hands as my rightful due.

You already did. It's called the Internet. Unfortunately, that's likely to be the best you can do in the US.

And how sad is that on a scale????

Ruv Draba · Sep 3, 2009

Melisande said:
And how sad is that on a scale????

Some cultures aren't known for loving philosopy. My homeland of Australia is one and perhaps the US is another. On the other hand, I've been caught in the rain at a bus-stop in Marseilles and had a Frenchman talk to me about Nietzsche while we were waiting for the rain to ease. He spoke only French and I spoke only English. Somehow we both exited the conversation thinking that we'd made sense to the other.

A few weeks ago I was in New Caledonia -- a French possession -- and noticed something very surprising. With a beachful of topless female sunbathers, a lot of guys (gals too) were reading.

>

stephenf · Sep 4, 2009

Melisande said:
. Reason for this argument is that I have such a hard time accepting the notion that atheists are emotionally 'dead'.

You don't have to accept this idea,because it's not true. I believe the core idea of being a Atheist is being open minded and finding joy in knowledge.Emotionally dead people are the opposite.

Dawnstorm · Sep 4, 2009

Ruv Draba said:
He spoke only French and I spoke only English. Somehow we both exited the conversation thinking that we'd made sense to the other.

That must be the best analogy ever to explain philosophy.

MGraybosch · Sep 4, 2009

Melisande said:
And how sad is that on a scale????

It's not sad to me; it's just life.

Perks · Sep 4, 2009

Melisande said:
that atheists do not meet up and 'congregate'?

Why don't we? And if we do - please tell me where!

Don't be silly. One of the top benefits of being an atheist is the ability to sleep in on Sunday mornings.

AMCrenshaw · Sep 4, 2009

stephenf said:
For instance, I shudder,no offence Melisande, at the idea of congregating to discus spirituality.It just sounds like a half hearted religion.

i take part in such a weekly discussion - an ecumenical one (we get a whole range of thought involved: protestants, catholics, muslims, jews, atheists, agnostics, deists, buddhists -- no Shinto Agronomists). half-hearted religion? perhaps if you mean a religion with no central faith, doctrine, or dogma -- then yeah, sure.

So why is it

Melisande

AMCrenshaw

...

Ruv Draba

zornhau

Swordsman

Higgins

stephenf

Higgins

MGraybosch

Lunch Break Novelist

veinglory

volitare nequeo

Ruv Draba

veinglory

volitare nequeo

MGraybosch

Lunch Break Novelist

Melisande

Melisande

MGraybosch

Lunch Break Novelist

Melisande

MGraybosch

Lunch Break Novelist

Ruv Draba

Melisande

Ruv Draba

stephenf

Dawnstorm

punny user title, here

MGraybosch

Lunch Break Novelist

Perks

delicate #!&@*#! flower

AMCrenshaw

...