Poetry in fantasy?

PoppysInARow · Sep 1, 2009

This may be a horribly stupid question and I apologize ahead of time. But I want to put a poem (well, part of a poem) into my book. I want to have one of the character's write it in his journal. It's perfect for what I want to say, but I need to know, is it kosher to put a poem written by somebody else in a fantasy? Or is that disrupting the whole "different world" barrier?

Also, I want to place in just part of the poem, not the whole thing because it's so long. Can I do this? If it gets published, where should I credit the original author of the poem?

Liosse de Velishaf · Sep 1, 2009

Because this is a commercial use, you need to get permission from the copyright holder of the poem. Others more wise than I may be along soon to instruct you in how this works.

I would not say that it disrupts the flow of the story, as long as there are no out-of-context or anachronistic cultural references in it.

Nivarion · Sep 1, 2009

Fair use states that if it is a parody, used for educational purposes or critisism, your fine, i think. the fair use laws are sort of... unclear. about everything.

The other thing to check is when the author died. If its been 70 years then their work is in the public domain.

If none of the above applies then you need to hunt down a copyright holder.

In most stories, no it would not disrupt or throw out your readers. So it is fine to use a bit of poetry here and there. just don't over do it.

Ardent Kat · Sep 1, 2009

Personally speaking, it would throw me for a loop to see a 'real world' poet's work in a fantasy novel. It could be anachronism and it would jar me out of the world you've build if I see writing I recognize from my own world. It would be especially confusing if it's framed in such a way that it seems like the protagonist wrote it.

Sounds like a sticky situation I'd avoid if it were up to me. I'd enjoy the poem and let it inspire me, but leave it out of the book (or write my own original poem for the protagonist to write in his journal)

F.F. · Sep 1, 2009

If it's a completely separate world and has no connection to the world of the poem's origin it may be a little confusing.

Putting your poet hat on and scribbling something original down is your safest bet. However, If you can validate the where and why of that poetry's inclusion, go for it. Just make sure the author is long dead as Nivarion said, otherwise i think things can get a bit, sticky.

F.F.

NicoleMD · Sep 1, 2009

I'd vote to write your own and use the other as inspiration.

There once was a troll from Nantucket...

Nicole

Poetic_Justice · Sep 1, 2009

Perhaps, instead of inserting it into the book in that place, you could put it on the page right after the acknowlegements so that it sort of gives people an idea as to where things could lead? I've seen it done a number of times.

Freelancer · Sep 2, 2009

Why don't you write your own poem into the novel itself? First, it would fit better to your own world, second, there will be no copyright problems. And also if someone is going to like your poem later, they'll comes to you as you'll be the copyright owner of your own poem.

Juliette Wade · Sep 2, 2009

I had to deal with this issue in my WIP, because initially I had a section where I wanted to use classical Japanese poetry in translation. It made me nervous, because though the poetry is more than a thousand years old, I didn't know how copyright might work for translators etc. I feel fortunate in that I have now changed that section and I've written my own poetry - but many elements of the total story are still influenced by classic literature, and I am expecting to write some kind of endnotes for the story.

In my experience with worldbuilding, I've found that unless the world has a recognized link to our own (as my WIP does), it can be problematic to use real world elements in a fantasy world. So I would agree with those who recommend going with some of your own original material.

MGraybosch · Sep 3, 2009

Sorry, but when I see poetry in a fantasy novel, I immediately write off the author as somebody who has been tainted by Tolkien.

Liosse de Velishaf · Sep 3, 2009

Tolkein gets waaaayyyy too much credit in terms of his influence.

LOG · Sep 3, 2009

MGraybosch said:
Sorry, but when I see poetry in a fantasy novel, I immediately write off the author as somebody who has been tainted by Tolkien.

So?

I'd say write your own poem.
There are times in my works where I sometimes feel like putting in a poem. I don't know how to write poems though...

rugcat · Sep 3, 2009

MGraybosch said:
Sorry, but when I see poetry in a fantasy novel, I immediately write off the author as somebody who has been tainted by Tolkien.

I use my own song lyrics, and occasionally a "poem" that's part of a chant, for example.

The trick is to keep it short -- four lines max, and short lines at that. Most readers will read four lines and appreciate something clever. Any more than that and they tend to skip over it. (I know I do)

And once or twice in a novel is fine, but if there are lines of verse in every chapter you're going to lose a lot of readers.

F.F. · Sep 4, 2009

If at the end of the day you are hell bent on using this magically inspirational piece of prose you can always follow the incredibly successful example of Alan Moore.

If the copyright holders are dead and gone for 70 or 80 years you can use whatever you like as seen in- "The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen". Sure, the dialogue and events are his writing, but every character in that graphic novel has been snapped out of past literature.

Oscar Wilde, Bram Stoker, Jules Verne, Robert Louis Stevenson, the list goes on...

Just make sure the poem is an old one.

veinglory · Sep 4, 2009

I don't see how this would fall under any of the fair use categories. If I happened to know the poem it would throw me totally out fo the story. I suggest coming up with your own poem.

starchildtrilogy · Sep 4, 2009

PoppysInARow, it's possible to put poetry in a work of fantasy. Piers Anthony, for example, uses an excerpt from the poem "Ozymandias" in his book For Love Of Evil. I don't how persmission works, but if you are going to use an excerpt from a poem, you might want to look into this. Also, it might be fun to challenge yourself and write your own poetry. I do that for my own books and it's a lot of fun!

F.F. · Sep 8, 2009

Strange coincidence (insert sarcasm here) that "Ozymandias" is a character's name in another popular piece of work by Alan Moore. Watchmen anyone?

Liosse de Velishaf · Sep 9, 2009

Why's that a coincidence? So two people borowed from the same source. Happens all the time.

veinglory · Sep 9, 2009

Also urban fantasy sci fi is an AU of this world. Nothing to say that poem doesn't exist in that world. High fantasy is different--it is a different world and should have its own poetry.

Poetry in fantasy?

PoppysInARow

Liosse de Velishaf

Nivarion

Brony level >9000

Ardent Kat

Kill your television

F.F.

NicoleMD

Onomatopotamus

Poetic_Justice

Pondering affirmation

Freelancer

Juliette Wade

Interprets for aliens

MGraybosch

Lunch Break Novelist

Liosse de Velishaf

LOG

Lagrangian

rugcat

Lost in the Fog

F.F.

veinglory

volitare nequeo

starchildtrilogy

We are made of star stuff.

F.F.

Liosse de Velishaf

veinglory

volitare nequeo