The He word is not my friend but he thinks he is

barbilarry · Sep 1, 2009

He is one of my most overused words with she following closely behind. How do I go about getting rid of them. At least most of Them. Are there rules that help with rewriting sentences and losing the he or she?

Thanks
Jane

Edit-I rewrote the he's and got rid of most of them. If you want to check it out it is the Mystery/thriller section. on the Small Town Ethics, Chapter one, third edit thread. I think you all helped me a great deal.
Many thanks and brownies to all
Jane

Libbie · Sep 1, 2009

No rules per se, but you can replace pronouns ("he" and "she" in this case) with other descriptions of your characters occasionally. For example, if your POV character is interacting with a doctor, slip in "the doctor" in place of a "she" once in a while.

Pronouns aren't always bad. They're among those nice "invisible words" that don't impede the flow of the story yet are still necessary now and then.

Mr Flibble · Sep 1, 2009

Could be a sign you aren't very close in your POV, or your sentences are all of a similar construction?

For ( a very crappy)example

X walked down the street and a lion jumped out. He ducked. He kicked that lion right in the nuts

X walked down the street. A lion lurked, half out of sight behind a skip. Little bastards, get everywhere these days.

Having a loose POV isn't bad - but you will end up with more pronouns. The sentence structure - once you're aware of it, it's quite easy to change.

Matera the Mad · Sep 1, 2009

He saw, he heard, he thought -- kill them.

Wayne K · Sep 2, 2009

I'll use 'he' for a while and then switch to their name "Cool," Jimmy said "I loves me some Pronouns." and then switch to 'he' again, and back.

Stijn Hommes · Sep 2, 2009

Why are you even under the impression the words he and she can be overused? The only thing to worry about is whether the reader knows who you're talking about. If you establish the names of one male and one female character at the start of the scene, you can with some crafty writing don't refer to them by anything else but pronounce for the rest of the scene without the reader even noticing.

Now look back at that paragraph and count how many times I used the word "the". Did you notice it when you were reading?

john barnes on toast · Sep 2, 2009

IdiotsRUs said:
Could be a sign you aren't very close in your POV, or your sentences are all of a similar construction?

was about to say the same thing.

If the pronouns are jarring it suggest that there's not enough rhythmic diversity in the writing.

maestrowork · Sep 2, 2009

So now pronouns are bad too? What's next? Verbs?

"He" (or "she" or "it" or whatever) is fine. Maybe you find yourself using it too much because there's too much of "he did this and then he did that" or filtering as in "he saw; he heard." You may try to find other ways to describe actions, and eliminate the filtering.

Also mix them up. Sometimes the weariness is a result of having the same sentence structure: "He blah blah blah. He then blah blah blah. After he blah blah blah, he blah blah blah." The same "subject+verb+object." Again, find other ways to construct your sentences for variation, pace and rhythm. Add descriptions and narrative in between that don't involve the character as a subject. So instead of:

He walked on the beach. He felt the coarse sand tickling the bottom of his feet, and he was exhausted by every step.

try...

He walked on the beach. The coarse sand tickled the bottom of his feet, and every step became more and more exhausting.

Or substitute certain pronouns with the character's name, nickname, or any alternative ways of referring to him: Dad, the Old Man, the father of the bride, etc.

Linda Adams · Sep 2, 2009

One basic rule: Don't confuse the reader. For example, people will often open a story with 'he.' Not tell us the name, like they're hoarding it or something. Then finally it gets tossed out in the middle of dialogue, and then the writer continues to refer to the writer by he again.

Or, you have a scene with two characters of the same gender, and both are referred to as she, so that it's not clear who's who.

Also worth noting is that you can edit out filtering--she noticed that the store was open becomes the store was open.

barbilarry · Sep 2, 2009

Libbie said:
No rules per se, but you can replace pronouns ("he" and "she" in this case) with other descriptions of your characters occasionally. For example, if your POV character is interacting with a doctor, slip in "the doctor" in place of a "she" once in a while.

Pronouns aren't always bad. They're among those nice "invisible words" that don't impede the flow of the story yet are still necessary now and then.

Libbie
Thank you. I read several passages from books In my library last night. And noticed exactly what you are saying. I know one has to use pronouns just not as much as I do. I fear it is my lack of experience that makes them so prevalent in my writing. In the examples I read they absolutely were invisible. when I write them, they jump out and hit the reader in the head. Thank you for taking the time to answer my question.
Jane Another name to add to my list to bake brownies for.

barbilarry · Sep 2, 2009

IdiotsRUs said:
Could be a sign you aren't very close in your POV, or your sentences are all of a similar construction?

For ( a very crappy)example

X walked down the street and a lion jumped out. He ducked. He kicked that lion right in the nuts

X walked down the street. A lion lurked, half out of sight behind a skip. Little bastards, get everywhere these days.

Having a loose POV isn't bad - but you will end up with more pronouns. The sentence structure - once you're aware of it, it's quite easy to change.

IdiotsRUs
Yes, you nailed it. Not very imaginative writing on my part. My writing in parts of my WIP reads like a grocery list.
He went
He did
He remained
and so on:
at least fifty times in the first ch. alone.
Would you mind telling me what you mean by "Loose POV? (Just so I can fix that, if it is a problem.
Thanks, You made my brownie list.
Jane

barbilarry · Sep 2, 2009

Wayne K said:
I'll use 'he' for a while and then switch to their name "Cool," Jimmy said "I loves me some Pronouns." and then switch to 'he' again, and back.

Wayne

Thanks. I will try to add the names and switch back and forth. With my luck I will probable be back on here asking for help because I use my characters' names too much.
I just added Wayne K to my brownie list.
Thanks
Jane

barbilarry · Sep 2, 2009

Stijn Hommes said:
Why are you even under the impression the words he and she can be overused? The only thing to worry about is whether the reader knows who you're talking about. If you establish the names of one male and one female character at the start of the scene, you can with some crafty writing don't refer to them by anything else but pronounce for the rest of the scene without the reader even noticing.

Now look back at that paragraph and count how many times I used the word "the". Did you notice it when you were reading?[/quote

Stijn Hommes
No, I didn't, a very good example. My problem is one that was stated above, I think. I start too many sentences with he or she. It makes my writing very boring and unimaginative. Your point is well taken though, if pronouns are used correctly, they are invisible. Unfortunately, I am not using them correctly. Therefore, again, my writing can get very boring. If I can improve my sentence structure, my writing won't be boring anymore. Until I find another rule/non-rule I have broken/misunderstood, I will probably be moving here at basic writing questions. I think I found a little corner to put a sleeping bad. It will save time if I live here and I will make my deadline.
Do you like brownies? I added you to my list. Thank you.
Jane

Folofop · Sep 2, 2009

What's a brownie list? Can I get one?

barbilarry · Sep 2, 2009

john barnes on toast said:
was about to say the same thing.

If the pronouns are jarring it suggest that there's not enough rhythmic diversity in the writing.

john barnes on toast

Thank you. What is rhythmic diversity? Does that me my sentences are all alike? If that is what it means then it absolutely correct. Some of my sentences are so nonrhythmic and un-diverse the are very, very boring for the reader.
Thanks. I hope you like brownies to. Your on the list.
Jane

barbilarry · Sep 2, 2009

maestrowork said:
So now pronouns are bad too? What's next? Verbs?

"He" (or "she" or "it" or whatever) is fine. Maybe you find yourself using it too much because there's too much of "he did this and then he did that" or filtering as in "he saw; he heard." You may try to find other ways to describe actions, and eliminate the filtering.

Also mix them up. Sometimes the weariness is a result of having the same sentence structure: "He blah blah blah. He then blah blah blah. After he blah blah blah, he blah blah blah." The same "subject+verb+object." Again, find other ways to construct your sentences for variation, pace and rhythm. Add descriptions and narrative in between that don't involve the character as a subject. So instead of:

He walked on the beach. He felt the coarse sand tickling the bottom of his feet, and he was exhausted by every step.

try...

He walked on the beach. The coarse sand tickled the bottom of his feet, and every step became more and more exhausting.

Or substitute certain pronouns with the character's name, nickname, or any alternative ways of referring to him: Dad, the Old Man, the father of the bride, etc.

maestrowork
Yes that is exactly what I do. I am going to go cut and paste every sentence and rewrite them on a separate page and rewrite all day, if need be. I think 'the isolate and conquer method' may be my best choice. You were absolutely right about what I am doing and what I need to do.
Thank you. I hope you like brownies too.
Jane

barbilarry · Sep 2, 2009

Linda Adams said:
One basic rule: Don't confuse the reader. For example, people will often open a story with 'he.' Not tell us the name, like they're hoarding it or something. Then finally it gets tossed out in the middle of dialogue, and then the writer continues to refer to the writer by he again.

Or, you have a scene with two characters of the same gender, and both are referred to as she, so that it's not clear who's who.

Also worth noting is that you can edit out filtering--she noticed that the store was open becomes the store was open.

Linda adams
Thank you for the basic rule. And thank you for the examples. And thank you again for the filtering example. Knowing me as I do, I would have been back here asking what filtering is.
Please say you like brownies.
Jane

john barnes on toast · Sep 2, 2009

barbilarry said:
john barnes on toast

Thank you. What is rhythmic diversity? Does that me my sentences are all alike? If that is what it means then it absolutely correct. Some of my sentences are so nonrhythmic and un-diverse the are very, very boring for the reader.
Thanks. I hope you like brownies to. Your on the list.
Jane

Yes, that's pretty much what I meant (it's not an established literary term as far as know, just what felt appropriate)

It's about getting a variety into sentence length and structure. Having lots of sentences starting with the same thing ('He' for example) is a problem that will be amplified if the sentence lengths are fairly uniform too. Like the shopping list you mention yourself.

See if you can, as others have suggested, merge some of your sentence using commas. This should hopefully have the duel benefit of mixing up the rhythm and reducing the need for pronouns.

An added bonus of these longer multiple action sentences are that when you do deploy a very short concise sentence amongst them, it can have greater impact.

barbilarry · Sep 2, 2009

Folofop said:
What's a brownie list? Can I get one?

I am baking brownies for all the kind people who have helped me.
Virtual brownies, because in real life I hate cooking and baking. And I burn everything. Once I was banned from the kitchen for setting it on fire every 3.4 years I was married. So virtual is the best I can do. But if one closes ones eyes one can really taste them.
I put you on my brownie list.
Jane

Folofop · Sep 2, 2009

Thanks Barbilarry.

That's just swell.

barbilarry · Sep 2, 2009

john barnes on toast said:
Yes, that's pretty much what I meant (it's not an established literary term as far as know, just what felt appropriate)

It's about getting a variety into sentence length and structure. Having lots of sentences starting with the same thing ('He' for example) is a problem that will be amplified if the sentence lengths are fairly uniform too. Like the shopping list you mention yourself.

See if you can, as others have suggested, merge some of your sentence using commas. This should hopefully have the duel benefit of mixing up the rhythm and reducing the need for pronouns.

An added bonus of these longer multiple action sentences are that when you do deploy a very short concise sentence amongst them, it can have greater impact.

Thank you for the great explanation. I will do what you suggested. I am heading to my rewriting now. Will that enhance the pace of the work, then? Is that what you mean by having a greater impact?
Thank you again.
Jane

barbilarry · Sep 2, 2009

I have a tip now for any new writers that are trying to learn all of the rules/non-rules of writing. If you struggle as I do to try to remember all of these, when you ask about a rule/non/rule, that pertains to something your struggling with, print the answers out and at the end of your WIP you will have a grammar rules book that addresses your specific problems and issues with your writing.
Jane

barbilarry · Sep 2, 2009

Matera the Mad said:
He saw, he heard, he thought -- kill them.

Matera the Mad
Thanks. I am lining up my weapons. Heading out to murder them now.
I put you on my brownie list.
Jane

john barnes on toast · Sep 2, 2009

barbilarry said:
IdiotsRUs

Would you mind telling me what you mean by "Loose POV? (Just so I can fix that, if it is a problem.

I know this wasn't asked of me, but I'll have a bash at answering.

The closeness or otherwise of POV relates to how much you allow of the central character in a scene's thoughts, feelings, and perceptions to filter into the prose.

For example, even when writing in 3rd person (he did, she did) you can allow the form of the piece to align closely to the 'he' or 'she's' POV. This means that you can include the things they think and feel as well as the things they physically do.

for example:
When he arrived at the shop it was empty, which he thought was unsual.

Even though this is written in 3rd person we are getting 'his' POV, as the observation that it was unusual is his, rather than being an objective comment by the narrator.

And if you establish a particularly close POV you don't even need to flag up these thoughts or sensory perceptions.

for example:
When he arrived at the shop it was empty, which was unsual.

once the POV is established the 'he thought' is an uneccessary filter and can be removed.

Wark · Sep 2, 2009

You know what I hate? Names.

You get three characters talking and you might be able to get away with 'he' if there's only one guy, but sine a pronoun refers to the last applicable noun, there's not a lot of 'she'ing going on.

Having the name show up 30 times in one page might not irritate everyone on Earth, but it does me.

Fortunately, everyone's dead except for two in my WIP, but now it's hard to get them to talk.

The He word is not my friend but he thinks he is

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