I’d like to know what genre this is, please.

[GPatten]

I’d like to know what genre this is, please.

I think it’s a fiction, thriller/espionage novel. I don’t know. I’ll give it a try here to see if anyone can tell me what it is. I can’t find understandable direction on the subject anywhere on the net, or here on these forums.

I’d also like to know if this type of genre requires more than 70000 words to be marketable. Is there anyone who knows this?

Here is my short synopsis:

My novel, “THE LIFE OF A TERRORIST ASSASSIN” is a story of the life and death of a young Palestinian woman whom at the age of 16 fled Beirut Lebanon during the end of the Lebanese Civil War, about 1987. Ara Hasimi had been jolted awake in the middle of the night when the Israeli forces forced their way into her home, went to her parent’s bedroom, and shot them.

Her life changed drastically as she fled, running in the shadows, reaching for safety over the Lebanese mountains to the Syrian boarder. She was directed to Sab Abar Syria and then to a terrorist training camp at Karbala Iraq for training. It was then they learned of her abilities. The FBI’s Critical Incident Response Group labeled her The Ghost and the ghost came alive with visions of nuclear explosions throughout the United States. Ara Hasimi had decided to become a radical Muslim terrorist, assassin. Her luck changed when her pursuits started to fail drastically. She had been pursuing her own targets and was assassinated by her own people to end her unofficial activities thus saving America from a nuclear death. She died on her 28th birthday. It’s easy to be caught up in her cause, but the reader is constantly reminded of the wrong she had done to the United States and Israel.

[sunandshadow]

I don't know that much about thrillers, but aren't they supposed to be in present tense, because the 'thrill' part comes from the immediacy of the story and the uncertainty of the outcome?

[veinglory]

I'd guess 'literary' because of the serious themes.

[James D. Macdonald]

Thrillers are present tense? Say what? Silence of the Lambs and Day of the Jackal are both thrillers.

[KTC]

tenses does not make the thriller as much as tension makes the thriller.

[WhetherOrNot]

I say it's a thriller, since the tension would keep you on the edge of your seat with some seriously dark espionage. If it's done well, I think it crosses into literary as well. But I don't know for sure.

As to word count, I've heard that first novels are more likely to get in print if they're actually novellas (which I think is about 65,000 plus words; novel size is 90,000 words and up).

These are good questions. I'll see what others say, because I really don't know for sure. I wrote a novella and it's a mere 65,000 words.

Trish

[icerose]

I was told a novel was anywhere from 70,000 words and up because there are several publishers that accept 80,000 words and would consider that novels. As for word count it goes by the publisher.

I would have to say thriller if it had the suspence and such.

[Cathy C]

Actually, Wichita, a novella ends at 40,000, so your 65,000 word is officially a novel. But 65,000 is a difficult length for anything other than category romance, western or horror, so you might consider beefing it up to 70,000 or even 80,000.


GPatten, you say you think it's fiction. Is this a story about a real person that you've fictionalized? This might be in the "true crime" or "true spy" genre. Do you have good sources for the information if it really happened, so that you can provide a bibliography of sources in the back? Joseph Wambaugh has had a terrific career of fictionalizing real accounts. You might pick up one of his to see how he handles it.

Good luck!

[maestrowork]

Without reading your novel, it's hard to figure out what genre it is. It could be suspense/thriller. It could be mainstream/literary.

65,000-word story is a novel.

Most thrillers I've read are written in past tense.

[GPatten]

My novel, “THE LIFE OF A TERRORIST ASSASSIN” is a fiction novel and its main category is of fiction. The only thing in my novel that is not fiction is the historical time-line and the Lebanese Civil War in the 1970s and 1980s in Beirut Lebanon, that’s all.

Throughout the rest of the novel it is mainline fiction. However, on some agents lists of genre they have subcategories of everything from soup to nuts. EI: fiction/romance, fiction/horror, and fiction/this, that, and even historical/fiction.

I don’t think, or I never considered it to be mainstream/literary, who knows? This is all so very confusing for me.

My novel could be called a thriller, I don’t know. It could also be labeled espionage too. My main caricature, Ara Hasimi is a PLO main assassin paid for by the Islamic terrorist network; therefore, I think it may be called thriller/espionage.

There seems to be agents, and perhaps publishers who require the genre of a subcategory if there is a subcategory. I think that’s what I’ve read somewhere on some agents web sites. I think subcategories might open the door easier.
Oh, it is written third person, past tense. And in going over it this afternoon, I have edited some things and added what was needed and it is now over 70000 words using MS word count.

Maestrowork:
I don’t think I could post it on here. It’s too big. Though I may at times post some things, so to cry for help. I’m stumbling over additions right now; I may post it tonight, or tomorrow and cry for help. I’ve received more than my share of help already, thank you all.


Cathy C:
My caricatures are totally fictional. I Googled the timeline and pulled up more material than I could cast in the back of a pickup truck. I only have three paragraphs covering the history of Beirut Lebanon and I needed a timeline of events and some of the history on Beirut. Believe me, I’ve forgotten so much since I was a young man, in the Navy on board the USS Forristal anchored off shore from Beirut in 1955 when a navy task force was rushed there to rescue those people who were working at the United States Embassy in Beirut. That particular time, things cooled down and they threw a party for those who went ashore for the pending rescue. I was one of them. I was on the beach as a Navy communications Radioman and I remember the stray bullets swishing overhead. I also remember the pretty young girls in that embassy who danced with us and provided the delicious hamburgers. I met one of them in Orlando Florida about thirty years ago. I remember the city streets, the gem stores, and how beautiful Beirut was before it was destroyed too.

---------
<< EDIT >>
I had to edit some of this I wrote yesterday, it made no sense what I had written before. Oh well.
<< EDIT >>
---------

[GPatten]

Oh, and there’s some romance throughout, and a little hot love too, but I don’t think I want to label this on as such.

[Sassenach]

My main caricature, Ara Hasimi is a PLO main assassin paid ---------


Caricature? Please tell me you mean 'character'. And please don't use the term 'fiction novel'...that's what novels are. It's redundant.

[wideawakesoh]

Depends. If she's called the ghost because she has supernatural abilities, then its a supernatural thriller, but if its just because she's a good at stealth, I'd call it a historical spy thriller with a twist. I think its brilliant that you've turned to write about the other side of the spy game for a change. Just remember, though, genre doesn't make a book. Most of the great books are genre benders, novels that you can't possibly classify in one simple category. I think you've got a great story there, especially since it's grounded in history, but I find it hard to classify without reading it.

Keep writing,
wideawake

[GPatten]

Caricature? Please tell me you mean 'character'. And please don't use the term 'fiction novel'...that's what novels are. It's redundant.

Sassenach:
Do you expect a 70-year ol man who’s never been able to spell right all of his life, to be able to spell now? Even when he’s wasted his money buying Stunk and Whites book on the Elements of Style, The Chicago Manual of Style, Roget’s international Thesaurus, and a big ol blue dictionary that must weigh in at least a hundred pounds? You’ve discovered why some people call me a dumb azzz. I had hopped I could hide that fact. Shucks!

I suppose my friends could be call me a Caricature, not because I’m strange, perhaps because I’m Phunny.

Thanks for your definition on Fiction and Novel. This is what I’ve been waiting breathlessly for. I still am just as confused as I have been from the get go. I guess I’ll just write “I don’t know” in my submissions where I need to describe the genre. Think that’ll do it? Think that will keep me out of the slush pile?

I could edit that mistake, but I won’t


Wideawakesoh:
No, no. She’s not called the ghost because she has supernatural abilities. The FBI has nick named her that, because she appears suddenly, wrecks havoc, and disappears into the depths of the cities of England and the United States...hiding. Just as a sleeper terrorist, assassin would do. She’s moved about, only to stay a short time, and moved again; over and over.

Yes, I was compelled to write on terrorists, something fierce was tugging at me. This is the second one I’ve written on this subject. My first one on this, “Dogs Of War” was started three months before 9-11-01 and it resembled that tragedy too closely, I had to change it and rewrite it. I’m honing that one down little by little as I work on getting this one ready for submission. I don’t think any one of the two will be a great book. I’d be lucky if they even made the market in paperback.

In my journeys on these tasks that I’ve taken on, I learn every day of how little I know and the list grows longer each day. Thanks.

[mistri]

I don't know that much about thrillers, but aren't they supposed to be in present tense, because the 'thrill' part comes from the immediacy of the story and the uncertainty of the outcome?

A few might be in present tense. I much prefer reading in the past tense, though. Tell the story well enough in any tense and it can feel immediate and unpredictable.

[Kiva Wolfe]

If it is fact-based and historical, it might be Fiction/Thriller/True Crime or Thriller/True Crime Biography. I'd keep it simple and stick with Thriller. If it doesn't say Biography or True Crime, then we presume it's a work of fiction. Ultimately, the publisher will decide what category they want it place it in. Having said all that, your book sounds like a killer story and one I would look forward to reading. Best of luck with it.

[Sassenach]

Sassenach:
Do you expect a 70-year ol man who’s never been able to spell right all of his life, to be able to spell now? Even when he’s wasted his money buying Stunk and Whites book on the Elements of Style, The Chicago Manual of Style, Roget’s international Thesaurus, and a big ol blue dictionary that must weigh in at least a hundred pounds? You’ve discovered why some people call me a dumb azzz. I had hopped I could hide that fact. Shucks!


Thanks for your definition on Fiction and Novel. This is what I’ve been waiting breathlessly for. I still am just as confused as I have been from the get go. I guess I’ll just write “I don’t know” in my submissions where I need to describe the genre. Think that’ll do it? Think that will keep me out of the slush pile?

I could edit that mistake, but I won’t
.

I expect someone who's calling themself a writer to be able to spell, yes. I think your poor writing will probably keep you in the slush pile.

[WhetherOrNot]

Thank you Cathy C. That's good to know. All this time, I thought 65,000 words was a novella.

Trish

[GPatten]

I expect someone who's calling themself a writer to be able to spell, yes. I think your poor writing will probably keep you in the slush pile.


Sassenach:

themself ??

him self s/b himself
your self s/b yourself
her self s/b herself
them self s/b them self
them selves s/b themselves

As I asked at the beginning of MY thread, “I’d like to know what genre this is, please.”

As I have told you, “This is what I’ve been waiting breathlessly for.”

I don’t recall a need to qualify myself as a writer. I introduced myself in the Newbie forum as an aspiring writer.

That means I’m hopeful...very hopeful.

I continued to the end and added:
Thank you, everyone for making this place what it is and helping those of us, like me, to learn how to write and what follows that.

That means...well, that means what it means; like those of us, I’ve come here to learn and there’s a lot to learn, an awful lot, and I’ve received more than my share of help here on this forum from some very knowledgeable people who have much more experience than I on the other world of writing.

I don’t recall when I joined here that I had to check with you to see if I needed to qualify to participate. Should I have? Such a heavyweight writer as you, perhaps I should have being a lightweight as I am.

I do recall seeing rules, rules that pertain to just what you are doing now and in reading your many posts for many years on here, what you’ve done in the past.

May I suggest that you not hijack my topic, my request for much needed information, or any other post I participate in? It’s easy. Just don’t read it. Oh, and thanks for all the information you give.

Buy, buy, now. Go play elsewhere. :hi:

[mdmkay]

I think it sounds a like it would fit in the historical/suspence or historical/thriller catagory....as for the spelling/grammar thats what you hire a good "book doctor" or "book editor" for before you submit the book. As long as you have a good story everything else is fixable. I congratulate you for taking on these projects at this time of your life....I bet you have some wonderful stories to tell.

[James D. Macdonald]

Your novel's genre is thriller or suspense. Don't worry about figuring out the exact sub-sub-category. Just don't bother sending it to someone who specializes in romance, children's, Christian, or fantasy, etc. That would just waste their time and yours.

Regardless of what you do or don't do it'll be slush unless/until someone buys it. Don't get hung up on the terminology.

I wouldn't recommend hiring an editor. Finding some good beta readers should be on your to-do list, though.

[GPatten]

Thanks mdmkay.

Thaniks James D. Macdonald.

I can’t keep up with all the good information I’m getting and respond to them. Thanks ever so much, all of you.

I have no one who can read my material and correct it for mistakes nearby.

I have a lady friend who lives in Orlando Florida I send to sometimes. She’s a retired principal of Orange County Schools and teaches English, Spanish, Greek, Italian, Russian, and gosh I don’t know what more she teaches and she speaks them all fluently.

The only thing is, now she’s almost blind with cataracts and so am I. I also have macular degeneration in one eye and a little in the other eye. I can still drive, but not that Orlando traffic.

So every once in a while she hollers at me to come and get her where as she stays for a couple of days and we huddle over what I’ve sent her. She’s a damn good editor and we have lots of fun with writing.

I have no idea what a beta reader is, though I think I seen it somewhere in here, someplace. I better go look for it soon.

I don’t know what I could do without all of your help.

[scribbler1382]

The term beta reader is a spinoff of a term from the software development industry known as a beta tester. That's someone who tries out software before it hits the general public to try and catch any boo-boos. Similarly, a beta reader is someone who reads your work before you let it out into the world to try and catch any...um...boo-boos.

And they don't have to physically live near you. Aside from this forum, there's about a buh-jillion forums and discussion groups out there on the net. Get to know some of them, and then you can ask people if they'd be interested in reading your work as a beta reader when you're done. A lot of the forums (including this one) also have critique areas, where you can upload samples of your work for feedback.

Best of luck!

[GPatten]

Thanks Marty:
I just got back and found it by using the search function.

[aruna]

A few might be in present tense. I much prefer reading in the past tense, though. Tell the story well enough in any tense and it can feel immediate and unpredictable.

I agree; and in fact most ARE past tense. For sone rerason past tense - at least for me - makes a story more immediate than present, which somehow almost always seems phony.

A synposis, though, should be written int he present tense.

[GPatten]

Here is an excerpt from chapter two I may insert on the forum, only to give those of you who have helped me, and idea on my task, a task I love to do...Write Stories.

It in no way reveals the drift of the total story. It’s only an encounter with wild dogs on Ara’s journey. A journey that deals in sabotage, love a young FBI agent has with a French striper by the name of Miss Yvette Aurelien Marceau who hums and coos in his ear on the dance floor while his partner, Vivian wishes she could be in Yvette place. A journey where Ara meats an old man charter captain while fishing on the Outer Banks of North Carolina and learns what America is all about. Where as in the tropical island of Merritt Island Florida, Ara meats an old blue haired Jewish lady who touches her heart. And, then there is the time she lifts two or three ships from the surface of the waters in Norfolk Naval shipyards and destroys half the base, or slams a knife into a target as he’s peeing in a restaurants commode. Then, there’s the time she severs the head of another target and delivers the head to the one who requested the task.

It was a journey through C-4 explosives, cutter charges, detonators, trigger assemblies, the planning of invasions from Terrorists from Columbia.

The statements she clamed, “Any gutless man, or woman could walk up to an unsuspecting fool, poke a gun to its head, and blow its brains out. Killings are very popularly attributed to such crude instruments as clubs, guns, and knives. The graceful art of traceless poisoning has all but disappeared.” Ara clamed, “America will belong to me within five years.”

It’s a journey that brought her to her death on her 28th birthday.

------------------------------------------------------

It took her two more days and another need to fill her gas tank as she continued on her bumpy path to reach the town of Sab Abar half way to the Iraqi border. She was happy to be as far as possible from the war in Beirut Lebanon.

In this journey, Ara become aware of a dog appearing from time to time as she continued on. It was a fleeting glance, a vague image of a dog. Each time, she caught sight of a paw, a head, or a tail from behind a boulder, or bush. She managed to catch a glance as each one darted into view and then, disappeared...quickly.

If a paw appeared, it was a cautious paw, creeping through the background to hide behind a boulder, or bush. If it was a head, she saw its snout, then an ear with an eye peering at her...studying...contemplating. A tail would twitch. Another one...its tail stood erect, wary and then, it broadcast that it was ready for...what? The dogs appeared as one dog at first, but each time after word, it seamed as though it would be a different dog, a different color, a different size.

Startled! She thought, “They’re a pack of Feral Dogs! They’re tracking me!”

Soon, all of them appeared together in the open, standing off to the side, ready for action. Ara knew that even though she was alone in a Jeep, they were capable of outrunning the jeep, attacking her. She couldn’t maintain a speed faster then her slow pace through the mountain passes. It would not be fast enough to flee these fast paced dogs.

“There must be twenty of them!” she thought again, “What’s next?”

Having maintained a steady pace through the pass, Ara picked it up hoping to disappear through the boulders and over the pass to the other side.

“Perhaps they won’t follow me.” She thought as she advanced closer to Sab Abar. Sab Abar Syria was close, just over the next ridge. “I don’t want to announce my arrival with gunshots, or the sound of a grenade.”

Ara Hasimi was a Lebanese PLO fleeing for her life from Beirut. Those people were supposed to be friendly, but they didn’t know her and they wouldn’t recognize the Israeli Jeep she had absconded was not their enemy.

“I would be shot and killed if I entered Sab Abar that way.”

Ara thought about that as she glanced to the side and behind her. The dogs had picked up the pace and were now overtaking her slower pace. Frightened, Ara reached for her automatic 380 hidden within her clothes. She felt it and sought comfort in it. Feeling it, grasping it, it was there, ready. But comfort would not reach her as the dogs picked up the pace even more.

Scampering and darting about, they changed pace and reached out towards her at full gait. Their dash may reach her before she could reach the end of the pass on the other side of the ridge.

Alarmed, she almost hit a large boulder as she came through the end of the pass and over the small ridge. Looking beyond, she could see the road was suited for a much faster pace, and she could see she was now approaching the outskirts of Sab Abar Syria.

Ara took a chance and rammed the gas pedal down until she was closer to town. Upon looking behind her, she saw that she had outdistanced the dogs and the dogs were gone.

She found some people on the street who were talking to a police officer. She overheard someone call him by his first name. They called him, Bahador. Bahador appeared to be quite a friendly person. Once they were through talking, she approached him to ask for directions to the Hospital.

After introducing herself and explaining her predicament, the police officer and what she had done, she asked for directions to the hospital. He laughed at her story about taking the Jeep and wrote down a few directions on a piece of paper that would lead her to the hospital.

He told her, “I must say young lady. I wish we had more like you around. If you have nerve enough to battle your way through an Israeli roadblock then you’re welcome in my city.”

The hospital proved to be a sizable building as any small city would have and appeared to be of recent construction. Parking her Jeep in the back parking lot, she entered and looked for someone who could tell her where the sister was.

“Where is Suri Estili? Is she here?”

Suri Estili looked up from the front desk and told her, “Yes, I am she.”

“I’m Ara Hasimi and I’ve brought you a note from your brother asking you to help me.”

Ara told Suri about her parents murder, how she had left home, and her journey here.

[GPatten]

Well, I did a lot of editing, some adding of needed information and I have it at 71673 words. I’m always surprised at what one can do when with the proper directions from those who help and what I learn from time to time how this can whittle out the junk and add some good things in. Still, there’s a long way to on my editing. I am now certain this is a suspense/thriller, thanks to James D. Macdonald.

I’m happy. Thank you all.

[Ronda]

I don't know much about how the industry chooses a genre, but my not-very-educated guess would be espionage thriller.

As for word count, Writer's Digest had a thing about word count a few months ago. My brain was kind enough to kick up the image of the cover so I could find it. There's a funny in here:

WD for Jan. 2005, page 27
"Short stories range from 1,500 to 30.000 words, novellas from 30,000 to 50,000 words, novels from 55,000 to 300,000 words."
OK, so what is that mirky place of 50,000 to 55,000 words called?

Anyway, I remember when I was writing Rue the Day and passed 50,000 words. It was a magical moment. I knew I had a ways to go yet, and I felt I could make it to the end.

Enjoy the process, whatever you deciede.

Warmly,
Ronda

[James D. Macdonald]

OK, so what is that mirky place of 50,000 to 55,000 words called?


Novelette

[Mistook]

So it goes...

Novella -

Novelette -

Novel.


Reminds me of Cigarillo, cigarette, and cigar.

[loquax]

I always thought that the suffix "-ette" means smaller than "-a" (as is the case with the cigar thing)

Of course, I understand that UJ may very well be joking.

But what's a book larger than 300,000 words called? Does one exist?

[Jonny Ryan Mac]

GPatton woulnt be short for George Patton would it? I love that guy.

[GPatten]

GPatton woulnt be short for George Patton would it? I love that guy.

No. He had a son my age though.