Current taboos...

Ruth2 · Aug 28, 2009

... in the American publishing industry. Anyone know what they are?

My WIP just turned really dark and I have a feeling no matter how well written it is, it's going to have a hard time finding a home. Like so many others it's an erotic paranormal thriller urban fantasy-- but it doesn't read like one. And now it's headed off into cannibalism. If I'd read my own sign posts I'd have seen it coming but no, I didn't and now.....

Anyway, anyone know what the taboos are?

Thanks y'all!

geardrops · Aug 28, 2009

I'm not an expert, but...

Ruth2 said:
Current taboos ... in the American publishing industry. Anyone know what they are?

Anything that doesn't sell.

If your treatment of the material is handled in such a way that publishers think nobody will pay money to read it, then it's a taboo.

But like I said, not an expert.

Kitty Pryde · Aug 28, 2009

I don't think any specific subject matter is taboo. Cannibalism, bestiality, violence, child abuse, sex crimes, sexual fetishes the majority of Americans are grossed-out by...there are books and films about all of these subjects. You'd have a hard time finding a home for a book about, say, how raping is awesome and we should all do more of it, but I don't think the actual topics are taboo.

And extremely high levels of squick aren't necessarily bad either, if the squick is well-written. I mean look at Chuck Palahniuk--his stuff isn't for everybody but it sells well and he has a decent-sized die-hard following. You practically need a barf bucket by your side to read some of his stuff (don't click on this link and don't read this short story by him!) and it's allllll good.

Tasmin21 · Aug 28, 2009

It should also be noted that there are personal taboos for a lot of agents/editors out there. I have heard several different ones say they don't want to see bad things happen to kids, etc. So while I doubt there are any industry-wide taboos, everybody has their own personal squick levels.

lucidzfl · Aug 28, 2009

Tasmin21 said:
It should also be noted that there are personal taboos for a lot of agents/editors out there. I have heard several different ones say they don't want to see bad things happen to kids, etc. So while I doubt there are any industry-wide taboos, everybody has their own personal squick levels.

I have a three year old kid get trampled in the opening chapter of my novel.

dawinsor · Aug 28, 2009

lucidzfl said:
I have a three year old kid get trampled in the opening chapter of my novel.

Get an editor who moonlights as a school bus driver, and you're all set.

Kitty Pryde · Aug 28, 2009

lucidzfl said:
I have a three year old kid get trampled in the opening chapter of my novel.

Peh! Jodi Picoult has made an incredibly successful career out of writing books where cute little kids die in various horrible ways, or get raped, kidnapped, or abused. Seventeen novels and 4 movies and no signs of slowing

Ken · Aug 28, 2009

... books without any graphic sex or violence in them are taboo these days, or so you'd think judging by what's on the shelves.

veinglory · Aug 28, 2009

Outside of material that is illegal, it depends on the publisher.

Ruth2 · Aug 28, 2009

Thanks all! I feel a lot better about the prospects for my WIP.

MY MC wandered into a meat locker and found children hanging up behind the kid-goats and lambs. This morning I had no idea I was going there and I thought I'd ask before I got any further into the territory.

Thanks, again!

The Lonely One · Aug 28, 2009

*drops the phrase "dolphin sex" then runs away giggling.

Ruth2 · Aug 28, 2009

heh heh heh...

backslashbaby · Aug 28, 2009

@ dolphin sex.

Ruth, are you also tackling religion in new and irreverant ways? Didn't you have a priest?

Meat locker children could sell millions

I totally wonder this, too, believe me. I am taking on religion, academics, Americans, Communists, vampires [basically] and including a murderous MC that you're supposed to like. If I can figure out more groups to alienate, I'll throw them in there too!

MsGneiss · Aug 28, 2009

I agree that there are no general taboo rules (at least none that I've heard) but you have to understand human nature and the fact that people have individual preferences. Agents dealing with your kind of genre are probably not squeamish about all that goes along with it, so I doubt that you will have any taboo-related problems during your pitch. Best of luck.

Ruth2 · Aug 28, 2009

backslashbaby: LOL! I think I'll alienate most of my FB friends right off the bat. The majority know me from my church play writing days-- and this ain't that, not by a long shot. So yeah, religion and people who are squigged out by incest, and folks who can't abide killing children and eating them... plus I mess up most of the vampire tropes too. No sparklies unless you count the old patriarch of the family who's really hot and wants my MC to run around naked all the time. Nothing like getting it on with your great great great great great grandfather... And he kills in extremely painful ways those who rebel against his authority. Hey why not-- it's the most fun I've had in a long time.

Sleepsheep: Thanks for the encouragement. I haven't even begun to think about an agent. It's nice to hear there may be someone interested in this.

Thanks y'all!

smcc360 · Aug 29, 2009

I think the adventures of a sympathetic group of Neo-Nazis disproving the Holocaust would be a pretty hard sell to mainstream publishers.

But kids in a meat locker doesn't sound like an automatic no-go to me.

Libbie · Aug 29, 2009

Vampires and zombies.

Oh, sorry. I thought you said "things Libbie wishes were current taboos in the publishing industry."

Really, though, about the only thing I can think of is "stuff that isn't well written." It seems just about anything can find a paycheck, given enough time and a good agent. Even more vampire and zombie stories.

Edited to add: I must say, though, your incestuous, kid-freezing great-great-grandpappy vampire sounds kind of cool. I'd probably read that, even though I am sick unto death of vampire novels. So you've already hooked me.

Libbie · Aug 29, 2009

lucidzfl said:
I have a three year old kid get trampled in the opening chapter of my novel.

Excellent! Mine has three young boys die in rapid succession: Infection, snake bite, and one becomes a snack for a Nile crocodile.

Viva!

I took special pains to make the boys lovable before they were axed. I'm a dick like that.

ChaosTitan · Aug 29, 2009

Tasmin21 said:
It should also be noted that there are personal taboos for a lot of agents/editors out there. I have heard several different ones say they don't want to see bad things happen to kids, etc. So while I doubt there are any industry-wide taboos, everybody has their own personal squick levels.

veinglory said:
Outside of material that is illegal, it depends on the publisher.

Ditto this.

Ruth2 · Aug 29, 2009

smcc360: Ooh, yeah. I bet that would be hard to sell.

Libbie: I gotta tell you, this great great grandpappy is hot. He plays my MC like Perlman plays a Strad.

Good to hear it's okay to have kids getting whacked.

ChaosTitan: Personal taboos are okay. I just wanted to make sure about the industry wide ones.

Thanks y'all!

IceCreamEmpress · Aug 30, 2009

Ken said:
... books without any graphic sex or violence in them are taboo these days, or so you'd think judging by what's on the shelves.

There are lots of recent bestselling books without sex or violence, from Marley and Me to The Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society to The Shack to The Five People You Meet in Heaven to Jan Karon's Mitford series, etc., etc., etc.

Kitty Pryde · Aug 30, 2009

Isn't "The Shack" about a little girl who is kidnapped and murdered by a serial killer who kills exclusively little girls?

Darzian · Aug 30, 2009

Kitty Pryde said:
(don't click on this link and don't read this short story by him!) and it's allllll good.

O

M

G

R.G. Alexander · Aug 30, 2009

Darzian said:
O

M

G

I would like to double that

O

M

G

Phaeal · Aug 31, 2009

I didn't even go to the linkie, and I'm willing to say OMG from past experience with CP. So:

OMG!!!

Current taboos...

Tam, na Koncu Drevoreda

Good thing I like my day job

i luv you giant bear statue

They will come from below...

Back from the dead

Dorothy A. Winsor

i luv you giant bear statue

volitare nequeo

Tam, na Koncu Drevoreda

Why is a raven like a writing desk?

Tam, na Koncu Drevoreda

~~~~*~~~~

Tam, na Koncu Drevoreda

I've Got An MFA In LEO

Worst song played on ugliest guitar

Worst song played on ugliest guitar

Around

Tam, na Koncu Drevoreda

Hapless Virago

i luv you giant bear statue

To-to-to-ron-to

Princess Awesomesaucer

Whatever I did, I didn't do it.

*