Flat mate

euclid · Aug 27, 2009

My MC is in Berlin, in 1940, sharing an apartment with someone (same sex).

I have been calling him his "flat mate" but it doesn't sound right. First off, I'm not sure the word "flat" would have been used in Germany in 1940. I think it's a term used mostly (exclusively?) in England (and Ireland) and may be too modern.

I've tried the American "room mate", but that suggests a level of intimacy which I do not want to imply.

So what do I call this co-habiter?

alleycat · Aug 27, 2009

Can you just say, "Shared a room with . . . " or "Shared rooms with . . . "? That's what Dr. Watson always called living with Sherlock Holmes.

Co-renter?

Puma · Aug 27, 2009

In my opinion, roommate did not have a negative connotation in 1940 - or 1950 - or 1960. Think of it another way, colleges did, and still do, assign two members of the same sex to share a room for a year and nothing's thought of it. I think you're fine with roommate. Puma

euclid · Aug 27, 2009

Hmmm.

Probably right, Puma, but my MC is trying to obfuscate a homosexual relationship, this being something of a no-no in Nazi Germany. Also, they're not room mates, as they don't share a room, they share an apartment (and have seperate bedrooms).

euclid · Aug 27, 2009

I wonder what Holmes and Watson's sleeping arrangements were.

Sirius · Aug 27, 2009

My fellow tenant? What did Isherwood call the other people in the lodging house in Goodbye to Berlin?

Doogs · Aug 27, 2009

euclid said:
Hmmm.

Probably right, Puma, but my MC is trying to obfuscate a homosexual relationship, this being something of a no-no in Nazi Germany. Also, they're not room mates, as they don't share a room, they share an apartment (and have seperate bedrooms).

In the U.S., at least, that would still count as roommates.

euclid · Aug 27, 2009

Sirius said:
My fellow tenant? What did Isherwood call the other people in the lodging house in Goodbye to Berlin?

Can't remember. Probably nothing. He was a master at avoiding labels.

lkp · Aug 27, 2009

In Canada we called them housemates. Roommates were only those who shared a room. But I think your problem is the word "mate." Sounds a bit too, er, matey. I do like "shared rooms with..." that someone suggested above.

euclid · Aug 27, 2009

lkp said:
In Canada we called them housemates. Roommates were only those who shared a room. But I think your problem is the word "mate." Sounds a bit too, er, matey. I do like "shared rooms with..." that someone suggested above.

Hi Lucy.

I thought of housemate, but it's not a house, it's an apartment. Anyway, I've gone with Sherlock Holmes's method as suggested by someone earlier.
Thanks.

PS: SEE MY NEW THREAD IN BETA READERS ETC>

girlyswot · Aug 27, 2009

euclid said:
My MC is in Berlin, in 1940, sharing an apartment with someone (same sex).

I have been calling him his "flat mate" but it doesn't sound right. First off, I'm not sure the word "flat" would have been used in Germany in 1940. I think it's a term used mostly (exclusively?) in England (and Ireland) and may be too modern.

I am really confused by this question. Is your MC German? In which case he would use a German word. If he is English-speaking, what on earth is he doing in Germany in 1940?

If he is German and what you are looking for is an English equivalent, then the question depends on what kind of English you are using in the rest of the book (English or American, modern or 1940's).

waylander · Aug 27, 2009

Doogs said:
In the U.S., at least, that would still count as roommates.

We simply don't use roommate like that over here.
Roommate implies a shared room, not separate bedrooms within rented premises.

euclid · Aug 27, 2009

girlyswot said:
I am really confused by this question. Is your MC German? In which case he would use a German word. If he is English-speaking, what on earth is he doing in Germany in 1940?

If he is German and what you are looking for is an English equivalent, then the question depends on what kind of English you are using in the rest of the book (English or American, modern or 1940's).

Really sorry to have confused you !

This character is German. He was born in Germany and lives there. He speaks German. My book, however, is written in (English) English, since I don't speak German or American English. The English used is meant to be 1940's English.

euclid · Aug 27, 2009

waylander said:
We simply don't use roommate like that over here.
Roommate implies a shared room, not separate bedrooms within rented premises.

Thanks for that waylander. Can you confirm that "flat" is a peculiarly English word. I think an American "flat" is a flat tyre.

alleycat · Aug 27, 2009

euclid said:
Thanks for that waylander. Can you confirm that "flat" is a peculiarly English word. I think an American "flat" is a flat tyre.

The term flat for apartment is being used more and more these days in the US (particularly to distinguish between townhouse apartments and single level apartments in the same apartment complex). I doubt it was used much by Americans in 1940 however, unless possibly in NYC.

All of which is besides the point, but I thought I would mention it.

girlyswot · Aug 27, 2009

euclid said:
Really sorry to have confused you !

This character is German. He was born in Germany and lives there. He speaks German. My book, however, is written in (English) English, since I don't speak German or American English. The English used is meant to be 1940's English.

In that case, why are you questioning the use of the word 'flat' on the grounds that it's only/mainly used in Britain? If you're writing in British English, that's the word you want. And you definitely don't want 'room mate', which would have the wrong connotations in British English.

pdr · Aug 27, 2009

And...

flatmate was used in the UK in the 1940s.

euclid · Aug 28, 2009

girlyswot said:
In that case, why are you questioning the use of the word 'flat' on the grounds that it's only/mainly used in Britain? If you're writing in British English, that's the word you want. And you definitely don't want 'room mate', which would have the wrong connotations in British English.

I suppose what I really need is the German word, so that I can either use it directly or translate it and see what I get.

Flatmate still sounds too English for my German setting.

PastMidnight · Aug 30, 2009

euclid said:
Thanks for that waylander. Can you confirm that "flat" is a peculiarly English word. I think an American "flat" is a flat tyre.

"Flat" used to be used to mean "apartment" in the U.S. My grandmother would talk about the flat she lived in during the 40s. I also see it pop up in old novels.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't "flat" have a slightly different meaning in British English in the 40s? At least (I should qualify) in Edinburgh? I had a beta reader once correct me on a character in Edinburgh who was described as living in a flat. The beta reader's father, who had grown up in Edinburgh in the 40s, never used the word "flat". She said, to this day, her father called them "houses". The house upstairs, the house downstairs. And "flat" seemed to denote the floor, rather than the living space on that floor. So in diaries, etc. I'd see reference to a person living in a "house on the second flat"

girlyswot · Aug 30, 2009

PastMidnight said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't "flat" have a slightly different meaning in British English in the 40s? At least (I should qualify) in Edinburgh? I had a beta reader once correct me on a character in Edinburgh who was described as living in a flat. The beta reader's father, who had grown up in Edinburgh in the 40s, never used the word "flat". She said, to this day, her father called them "houses". The house upstairs, the house downstairs. And "flat" seemed to denote the floor, rather than the living space on that floor. So in diaries, etc. I'd see reference to a person living in a "house on the second flat"

PM, I'm pretty certain that's a specifically Scottish usage.

Suse · Aug 31, 2009

PastMidnight said:
"Flat" used to be used to mean "apartment" in the U.S. My grandmother would talk about the flat she lived in during the 40s. I also see it pop up in old novels.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't "flat" have a slightly different meaning in British English in the 40s? At least (I should qualify) in Edinburgh? I had a beta reader once correct me on a character in Edinburgh who was described as living in a flat. The beta reader's father, who had grown up in Edinburgh in the 40s, never used the word "flat". She said, to this day, her father called them "houses". The house upstairs, the house downstairs. And "flat" seemed to denote the floor, rather than the living space on that floor. So in diaries, etc. I'd see reference to a person living in a "house on the second flat"

I've never heard of that, PastMidnight. Sounds very odd. Aren't you describing two-floored accommodation where one family lives upstairs, the other downstairs, and the families may or may not share a front door? Those are certainly houses. When I first looked at buying property, there were a fair number of quarter-divided houses too, probably because of how difficult it is to get on the property ladder. These days a quarter of Edinburgh housing remains pre-WWI tenements, and I can't imagine anyone ever calling their cramped rooms houses unless perhaps they lived in particularly smart accommodation. Could be wrong though.

Euclid, is one of your characters perhaps a lodger and the other a landlord or some variation on that theme?

PastMidnight · Aug 31, 2009

I wondered if it might just be a Scottish usage. Suse, I know it's not used that way these days, so I was surprised when my beta reader said it. I had never heard it. I asked the same, whether it just applied to flats that took up the entire floor or flats with private entrances. She said her father had always lived in Leith, in the old tenements, so he did use it to refer to flats on a shared floor. Then I did a bit more poking around in my primary sources and found mentions of "house" used this way as well. I'll see if I can dig up some of my references.

Euclid, sorry for the digression!

euclid · Sep 2, 2009

Suse said:
I've never heard of that, PastMidnight. Sounds very odd. Aren't you describing two-floored accommodation where one family lives upstairs, the other downstairs, and the families may or may not share a front door? Those are certainly houses. When I first looked at buying property, there were a fair number of quarter-divided houses too, probably because of how difficult it is to get on the property ladder. These days a quarter of Edinburgh housing remains pre-WWI tenements, and I can't imagine anyone ever calling their cramped rooms houses unless perhaps they lived in particularly smart accommodation. Could be wrong though.

Euclid, is one of your characters perhaps a lodger and the other a landlord or some variation on that theme?

The (modern) word maisonette springs to mind!

No, although one is wealthy, the other not.

Steam&Ink · Sep 6, 2009

Hi Euclid,
the German word for flatmate is Mitbewohner; literally translating to "with-liver" - James is my Mitbewohner, he lives with me.
I'm wracking my brains as to how to anglicise this, but can only come up with "housemate". Sorry

Steam&Ink · Sep 6, 2009

If they are both lodging under a landlady, A could be B's "fellow lodger" or "fellow boarder"

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