Public Domain Super Heroes?

Art_Sempai · Aug 17, 2009

I found this site by accident, I was wondering if it's legit.
I know things can slip through the cracks into public domain.
Some of these characters aren't half bad.
It seems strange to me as an artist that noone has picked up these
characters.

http://pdsh.wikia.com/wiki/Public_Domain_Super_Heroes

Mac H. · Aug 17, 2009

I'm sure there are some, but the logic that these are 'Public Domain' seems to be a bit vague. He seems to be confusing any 'orphan work' as being 'Public domain'.

He even classes 'Captain Marvel' & 'Archie' as having an 'uncertain' copyright status.

But 'uncertain' is NOT the same thing as 'public domain'.

He talks about everything from the publisher 'Charlton' as being 'public domain' because he doesn't know who owns the rights.

Rubbish. Someone owns the rights. It's probably mired between a couple of companies. But that doesn't make it public domain.

See here for a history of Charlton .. and the telling phrase at the end .. "by 1988, the bones were picked dry.."

Yep - they sold off their assets, including copyright to their characters. (I think DC bought some of them)

Why on earth would they donate their major assets to the public domain ?

Mac

Axler · Aug 17, 2009

The copyright status of certain stories featuring Captain Marvel, Archie, Blackhawk and Plastic Man is uncertain, but the characters themselves are trademarked and therefore can't be used without permission of the trademark owners.

Most of the other characters mentioned on that site are indeed public domain and even if they're orphaned they can be "adopted" and the new versions copyrighted.

For example, there have been two versions of The Green Lama published in the last year by two different publishers. I think there are at least three versions of the Black Terror.

The Charlton stuff is a real murk. DC bought their "Action Heroes" (except for Pete Morisi's Thunderbolt), but the status of a great deal of the Charlton material is still undetermined.

A Canadian named Roger Broughton supposedly bought the lion's share of Charlton's comic properties in the 80s...there has been questions about what he actually bought...and if he even exists.

blacbird · Aug 17, 2009

Chances are extremely good that, in the U.S., if something was published later than 1922, it remains under copyright protection, regardless of how easy it is to figure out who the copyright holder is. And character trademarks are an entirely different legal animal from copyrights. For instance, some of the early Tarzan books by Edgar Rice Burroughs (including the original, Tarzan of the Apes) are in public domain and can be freely copied and republished. The character of Tarzan, however, I'm pretty sure is trademarked, meaning you can't write and publish a new Tarzan story without obtaining permission.

Since "superhero" stories came into vogue largely in the 1930s and beyond, you're probably out of luck in trying to use an extant superhero character. So . . . . . why don't you invent your own superhero?

caw

Art_Sempai · Aug 17, 2009

I have characters of my own, no problem there.
I've seen some with the same names as mine while browsing their list.
If they're really public domain I don't have to worry about changing names.

blacbird said:
Chances are extremely good that, in the U.S., if something was published later than 1922, it remains under copyright protection, regardless of how easy it is to figure out who the copyright holder is. And character trademarks are an entirely different legal animal from copyrights. For instance, some of the early Tarzan books by Edgar Rice Burroughs (including the original, Tarzan of the Apes) are in public domain and can be freely copied and republished. The character of Tarzan, however, I'm pretty sure is trademarked, meaning you can't write and publish a new Tarzan story without obtaining permission.

Since "superhero" stories came into vogue largely in the 1930s and beyond, you're probably out of luck in trying to use an extant superhero character. So . . . . . why don't you invent your own superhero?

caw

Axler · Aug 17, 2009

Actually, up until the 1970s, copyright holders were required to file renewals. That's how and why so many corporate-owned characters fell into public domain or were orphaned...the publishers were long out of business and so no representatives of the properties filed the paperwork.

shawkins · Aug 17, 2009

Just out of curiosity, what was the deal with all the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen? Were they public domain, or was something else going on? IIRC, there was an Alan Quatermain movie in the 80s or thereabouts. Not to mention all the Jekyll/Hyde stuff and, well, all of them really.

Mac H. · Aug 17, 2009

Rider Haggard (who created Quartermain) died in 1925.
Jekyll & Hyde's author died about 110 years ago, so it is definitely in the public domain by now !

Mac

DavidZahir · Aug 17, 2009

In fact there are numerous superheroes who are indeed in "public domain". Alex Ross recently was instrumental in reviving a whole bunch of these in an original format from Dynamite Entertainment called Project Superpowers[/B].

BigWords · Aug 17, 2009

Octobriana has been used by so many people that the character is considered public domain. I was surprised to see The Heap listed, as reprints of several strips have been tied up for years because of legalese over ownership.

Take lists such as these with a grain of salt.

Axler · Aug 18, 2009

There are three different versions of The Heap...the first was published by Hillman back in the 40s and 50s...that one is definitely public domain.

Skywald published a couple of versions of The Heap in the 70s.

I never heard of any problems reprinting the storiies from either Hillman or Skywald.

In fact, I thought there had been at least one compilation in recent years.

FYI--All the characters who have appeared by name in the various League of Extraordinary Gentlemen stories are in the public domain.

James Bond, Dan Dare and others are not directly referred to by name.

BigWords · Aug 18, 2009

There was meant to be something released around the same time as McFarlane used the character in Spawn, creating problems with trademark(?). Trademark is different to copyright, and can halt the use of public domain characters or force a name change so as to eliminate confusion among readers. It gets complicated, but the re-use of the original Daredevil under a different name shows how some get around the situation.

Alan Moore has stated that he wants to bring The League into the 1960s, and is going to use characters who are most certainly under copyright. No idea how he plans to get around the problems he will be creating for himself.

DavidZahir · Aug 18, 2009

Well, if he doesn't actually identify them explicitly, he should be able to get away with it. He might also claim to be creating a parody--you can do pretty much anything legally if it is a parody. Then again, you cannot copyright names so what if (for example) he included an interview on t.v. with a famous scientist named Robinson who admitted to having played "Zorro" in college?

I would be astounded if The Village does not somehow figure into the 1960s League, as well as U.N.C.L.E.

Axler · Aug 18, 2009

You're absolutely right, David.

Also, if I recall The Heap situation in Spawn, it was because McFarlane, having bought the Eclipse properties thought he owned the character as he appeared in Chuck Dixon's version of Airboy.

Dixon's version was his version, so he claimed copyright on that one.

maxmordon · Aug 18, 2009

BigWords said:
There was meant to be something released around the same time as McFarlane used the character in Spawn, creating problems with trademark(?). Trademark is different to copyright, and can halt the use of public domain characters or force a name change so as to eliminate confusion among readers. It gets complicated, but the re-use of the original Daredevil under a different name shows how some get around the situation.

Alan Moore has stated that he wants to bring The League into the 1960s, and is going to use characters who are most certainly under copyright. No idea how he plans to get around the problems he will be creating for himself.

Well, a couple of characters of the book were under copyright and he managed to use them by calling them by other name (Fu Manchu is refered as The Chinese Doctor, for example)

Wasn't the Black Dossier set in the 60's? To avoid copyrights they refer James Bond exclusively as "Jimmy", Emma Peel as Emma Night and the rest without much change (Bulldog Drummond, Harry Lime, etc.)

BigWords · Aug 19, 2009

The Black Dossier names tons of characters, but he sounded like he was planning a comic (like the first League story) that actually has appearances and interactions on a bigger scale. If you go through his interviews he seems to be stuck on the League idea, despite the fact he has done better work (i.e. the excellent From Hell).

Axler · Aug 20, 2009

With some companies and characters, the copyright situation is such a murk--The Heap is a case in point--it's a crap shoot.

sunandshadow · Aug 20, 2009

I don't really understand what someone would want a public domain superhero for, but I think it would be pretty easy to create some and release them, I'd do that if someone was actually going to do something with them.

Axler · Aug 20, 2009

Well...

If you wanted to lay some kind of claim to a character and you didn't have any new artwork, you could alter the original--let's say The Black Terror-- in some way, publish and claim that version as your own.

I doubt such an approach would stand up in court, but by the same token I doubt anybody would take you court over it, either.

MadMikeyD · Aug 20, 2009

The way we understand the Fawcett/Quality/Charlton situation is that by the time they sold their properties to DC their copyrights were already expired, with a few exceptions (i.e. Captain Marvel and Plastic Man). As for why someone would want a public domain super hero, well, some people just enjoy using ready-made characters. Just like so many people use Dracula and Sherlock Holmes for their stories. I did create/co-create a few of the characters on the PDSH list. Originally for my own use, I thought it would be neat to see what other people might do with them.

DavidZahir · Aug 21, 2009

One reason that immediately springs to mind is to "flesh out" one's background. For example, your hero might have grown up admiring all the newspaper stories about Fighting Yank, and one of the other heroes hanging around might be the current wielder of the nom-de-guerre The Arrow.

sunandshadow · Aug 21, 2009

MadMikeyD said:
I did create/co-create a few of the characters on the PDSH list. Originally for my own use, I thought it would be neat to see what other people might do with them.

I couldn't find a category page of characters specifically created for public domain use. Did anyone do anything with your characters, that you know of?

MadMikeyD · Aug 21, 2009

sunandshadow said:
I couldn't find a category page of characters specifically created for public domain use. Did anyone do anything with your characters, that you know of?

No one has done anything that I know of, except my own web-comic. The "Miscellaneous Characters" category is the home of these characters right now. Octobriana and Jenny Everywhere are included in that category as well.

http://pdsh.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Miscellaneous_Characters

ResearchGuy · Aug 21, 2009

blacbird said:
. . . So . . . . . why don't you invent your own superhero?

caw

Classical mythology (Homer, Sumerian, Egyptian, and Biblical mythology, etc.) should provide lots of inspiration.

--Ken

Axler · Aug 22, 2009

I would imagine a lot of people have invented their own super-heroes.

But if they're not artists, they might not be able to invent an entire publication featuring that super-hero.

Theoretically, pre-existing public domain characters could provide a publishing platform.

Worked for Bill Black and his AC line for many years.

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