When to introduce the antagonist

LittleFlowerLei · Aug 14, 2009

hi! Yes, I'm back with another question. I bet you're all getting sick of me huh?

This time my question is about when to introduce the antagonist. So far, I've got a little spark between the hero and heroine in my latest YA romance (Check out the SYW romance section to read the first chapter!

) but I was hoping to push them a little closer together before introducing the antagonist.

The thing is though, that while the antagonist is busy making their lives hell (figuratively, I guess. Not so much "Them" as much as "The heroine") is when I want a good deal of the romance and getting closer to take place. But I'm also just on the back half of chapter two (and at a very unfortunate 4,763 words. Man, are there really that few?) and don't want to rush too much.

So my question is:

When is the best time to bring in the antagonist? After the hero and heroine have had some time to get closer together (Considering they've only known eachother for about a day at this point.) or near the beginning before very much closeness can be acheived?

Salis · Aug 14, 2009

I'm probably not a good person to ask, since the "antagonist" in my current piece isn't really setup as the antagonist until maybe the last 1/8th of the book. I think it all depends on how specific you are about the challenges to your MC.

Is the real obstacle the antagonist? If so, you're probably going to want to establish the antagonist very early on, and really build him or her up. This is the traditional villain approach. Hell, Tolkien built Sauron up for 3 books.

LittleFlowerLei · Aug 14, 2009

Salis said:
I'm probably not a good person to ask, since the "antagonist" in my current piece isn't really setup as the antagonist until maybe the last 1/8th of the book. I think it all depends on how specific you are about the challenges to your MC.

Is the real obstacle the antagonist? If so, you're probably going to want to establish the antagonist very early on, and really build him or her up. This is the traditional villain approach. Hell, Tolkien built Sauron up for 3 books.

Yeah, thats the thing. He's the obstical that the hero and the heroine must overcome to be together, and the way he's a total jerk to the heroine is what helps build on the hero's relationship with her because she goes to him whenever the antagonist hurts her and she needs comfort. The hero becomes, like, her rock and winds up doing everything in his power to protect her from the antagonist.

So I should introduce the antagonist early on and build him up? (I think that might work, actually. I don't want him to be one of those antagonists that come in and randomly start being mean. you know what I mean?)

Salis · Aug 14, 2009

LittleFlowerLei said:
Yeah, thats the thing. He's the obstical that the hero and the heroine must overcome to be together, and the way he's a total jerk to the heroine is what helps build on the hero's relationship with her because she goes to him whenever the antagonist hurts her and she needs comfort. The hero becomes, like, her rock and winds up doing everything in his power to protect her from the antagonist.

So I should introduce the antagonist early on and build him up? (I think that might work, actually. I don't want him to be one of those antagonists that come in and randomly start being mean. you know what I mean?)

Yeah, if you want him to be a big deal, you have to make the reader care about him (or hate him a lot). In my current WIP, the external obstacles are kind of secondary to the developement of the MC (finding out who he is, why he died, what's going on, etc). If you're going with the villain as main obstacle route, again, he's got to be a credible opponent (whatever that means in the context of your story), and it helps if he's either sympathetic, well-developed, or (as the opposite technique) inspires the reader to intensely loathe and/or hate him.

LittleFlowerLei · Aug 14, 2009

Salis said:
Yeah, if you want him to be a big deal, you have to make the reader care about him (or hate him a lot). In my current WIP, the external obstacles are kind of secondary to the developement of the MC (finding out who he is, why he died, what's going on, etc). If you're going with the villain as main obstacle route, again, he's got to be a credible opponent (whatever that means in the context of your story), and it helps if he's either sympathetic, well-developed, or (as the opposite technique) inspires the reader to intensely loathe and/or hate him.

Okay, awesome. I guess I'm gonna put the antagonist in pretty early and see how that goes.

Here's hoping it works!

Stunted · Aug 14, 2009

I'd say that you should introduce him, at least in passing, very early on, but not to have him really antagonize anyone until the story gets as far as it can without him.

LittleFlowerLei · Aug 14, 2009

Stunted said:
I'd say that you should introduce him, at least in passing, very early on, but not to have him really antagonize anyone until the story gets as far as it can without him.

Yeah, that'll probably work. Besides, I don't have a lot of pre-antagonist stuff planned, so I'll probably need him early on anyway lol.

Ervin · Aug 14, 2009

You ask some pretty basic questions. When I ponder questions like these I often reflect back on my favorite books and think of what those authors did and how well it worked. This is where a good reading history is a huge advantage.

cscarlet · Aug 14, 2009

Agreed you should introduce him early.

Something else to consider: you could always have him cause some form of difficulty for her (which has absolutely nothing to do with her and this other guy), even if it is trivial (so long as it's a jab she notices), and let her have a chapter or two to battle with her feelings for a while. Shoot you could even have it so that she's about to reach a breaking point before she confides in her "hero"? Something that she has tried, desperately, to ignore/be strong about, but he "knows her well enough now" to recognize that something is wrong (and that she can confide in him if she needs to).

I'm not sure of your whole plot, so that may not work at all... But it's just a thought/suggestion. Overall, I would just be careful of having too much of the "damsel in distress, oh my man saves me from everything" kind of mentality. I'm not saying that's your plan at ALL, I'm just saying that in general always kinda irks me

LittleFlowerLei · Aug 14, 2009

cscarlet said:
Agreed you should introduce him early.

Something else to consider: you could always have him cause some form of difficulty for her (which has absolutely nothing to do with her and this other guy), even if it is trivial (so long as it's a jab she notices), and let her have a chapter or two to battle with her feelings for a while. Shoot you could even have it so that she's about to reach a breaking point before she confides in her "hero"? Something that she has tried, desperately, to ignore/be strong about, but he "knows her well enough now" to recognize that something is wrong (and that she can confide in him if she needs to).

I'm not sure of your whole plot, so that may not work at all... But it's just a thought/suggestion. Overall, I would just be careful of having too much of the "damsel in distress, oh my man saves me from everything" kind of mentality. I'm not saying that's your plan at ALL, I'm just saying that in general always kinda irks me

Man, you have no idea how much that would all work. Not only will the antagonist (and this is just an idea I hve off the top of my head) reminding the heroine of how happy she used to be with him mess up her getting with the intended hero, but it'll give the hero more of a reason to hate him right off. Plus, this, coupled with some other stuff that the heroine's friends (and even the heroine, actually, but she wont admit it) knew about her relationship with the antagonist will help to define him. won't it?

I love this! Its all coming together!

LittleFlowerLei · Aug 14, 2009

Ervin said:
You ask some pretty basic questions. When I ponder questions like these I often reflect back on my favorite books and think of what those authors did and how well it worked. This is where a good reading history is a huge advantage.

See, i tried that. Thats actually how I spent most of the afternoon, but I had to keep in mind that most of the romances I read are paranormal romances or historical romances. I very rarely read "normal people" modern Romances (Non-paranormal xD "Normal people" nice word huh?) which I might start doing soon, if I find any that catch my interest :3

RJK · Aug 15, 2009

From what I've read above, your antagonist is an X lover. To make him a real person, you have to create a real person, who fell in love with your heroine. Show his angst at his loss as well as all his bad decisions that caused the breakup and his loss. He has to be a human too, not a two dimensional character just put there to make your hero look good.

Kathleen42 · Aug 15, 2009

LittleFlowerLei said:
I very rarely read "normal people" modern Romances (Non-paranormal xD "Normal people" nice word huh?) which I might start doing soon, if I find any that catch my interest :3

If you're writing a "normal person romance" with the goal of getting published in that genre you should be reading them. It's unfortunate if they don't catch your interest but knowing your genre is important.

RodS · Aug 15, 2009

IMO, 5,000 words isn't enough for the hero and heroine to "get closer" after a day. You need to flesh out their relationship. Have a love/hate thing go on. Have the hero do something stupid for the heroine to hate him, then something foolish for her benefit to her to like him, and back and forth. Something like that. Have them get to know each other first, their strengths and weaknesses. Readers like that. It adds depth.

As for the villian, questions: who is he, what connection does he have to the heroine; x-lover, boyfriend, estrangled brother with a crush on her? The hero; friend, brother, etc. You must flesh him out like that others. Make the reader care about him. If the reader doesn't care about your characters, the book won't make it.

Rowdymama · Aug 15, 2009

I like to introduce my antagonist as soon as the basic situation is fully laid out. If the reader has no idea what the problem is, how can they recognize the AN when they do show up?

Blackest_Nite · Aug 15, 2009

When I'm reading, I find it very difficult to understand if the antag. is introduced later in the story. In my current WIP, I intro the antag. after the MC has had a chapter or so to be in the reader's attention. Don't know if this helps at all though...

Adam · Aug 15, 2009

Another vote for early. The sooner they appear, the sooner the reader can begin to hate/love/empathise.

half.jaded · Aug 15, 2009

I'm going for early in the book too. ^________^ Antagonists are, in my opinion, one of the most interesting characters in the entire book. I can forgive a boring protagonist, as long as your antagonist is strong enough. xD

Plus, the antagonist brings on the conflict, and every book needs conflict. ^^

2Wheels · Aug 15, 2009

I'm on the early side. Even if he/she/it then drops out of the scene for a while, that's OK with me. At least I've met them. They might not have been classified as an antagonist on the intro, but their place has been set. They're at the table.

RodS · Aug 15, 2009

But too early and there's no foreshadowing?

LittleFlowerLei · Aug 15, 2009

Thanks everybody for the help! I've decided to introduce him early on, and after I did a little outlineing, I realized that there really is no better time than at the beginning ^_^

DMarie84 · Aug 16, 2009

I'd say introduce the threat as early as possible--probably within the first three or four chapters. But it depends on the story--it's doesn't have a clear answer.

When to introduce the antagonist

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