Curse Words in YA....for 10yrs and up ---

nitaworm · Aug 13, 2009

Ok, before I release my book to the printers -- should I take out the curse words if I want it read in schools? The only words I have in it is D*** and H*** (not often but at defining moments) but I want to make sure what is exceptable. My kids (12yrs and 14yrs) say its realistic to leave it in. However, the schools in our county will not allow students in middle school to read books with curse words in them.

What should I do? Keep them in / take them out?

What about High School level? I have another book that has the same words in them, but more often.

Write4Life · Aug 13, 2009

If you want your book read in schools in your county then perhaps you should substitute the words you feel are a little too mature for middle grade. Like for D*** you could say darn or for S*** you can say shoot. But stick to what you believe tells the story best, don't let anything scare you away from telling the story the way you originally wrote it.

As for your high school book you can leave them in. Once you reach a certain age teachers aren't as strict with bad language in books just as long as it tells a good story.

Oh, and congrats on getting your book published, enjoy the ride!

kaitlin008 · Aug 13, 2009

YA is fine with curse words.

I would honestly not worry about what the schools in your county think of curse words unless they've already said to you that they'll use your book without them. Because lots and lots of books get published compared to how many are used in schools.

For high school, though, they're not going to bat an eye at swearing like that.

nitaworm · Aug 13, 2009

Thanks for the coodles for pub. Darn! Forgot to put that in Goals and Accomplishments... oh well. I just hate getting all excited until the deed is actually done...you know what I mean?

Anyways,

I really want to leave the curse words in. I don't curse (unless serioulsly provoked by pain), but one of my main characters does. It helps to show his anger, beligerence and overall attitude. Besides, it more realistic... what 15yr old kid doesn't curse when their parents aren't around? Not many I would bet.

Shady Lane · Aug 13, 2009

I'm questioning if 10+ is YA, but...my oft quoted example--BREAK, my YA that's out in 12 days, has the word 'fuck' 87 times.

lm728 · Aug 13, 2009

nita-- Lol. Even nerds do it.

I curse like a truck driver when my parents aren't around.
I curse like a normal person when my parents are around. Which is to say, only in moments of extreme anger. And...in moments of not-so-extreme anger, too.

Haha, Shady, you've checked?

Shady Lane · Aug 13, 2009

yeaaah. it was 86, but my editor put in another one. have i mentioned i love her?

lm728 · Aug 13, 2009

Lol. I should check.
I have four variations of fuck in a 100-word snippet.

Sage · Aug 13, 2009

I have never used the F-word.

I'm being really good about not letting Bex use damn, hell, or shit, which are my big ones.

Shady Lane · Aug 13, 2009

Bex doesn't curse??

I have one character in my WIP who doesn't curse (though other people still do in her viewpoint) but I have to go through like every one of her chapter and delete all the 'fuck shit damn fuck fuck fuck' because it's my natural voice.

I'm such a lady.

nitaworm · Aug 13, 2009

Well I did take out the word A** and Son-of-a-B***

But I felt that H*** and D*** or Da***it should be ok.

Shady Lane · Aug 13, 2009

really, anything's okay as long as it's in character.

Sage · Aug 13, 2009

Shady Lane said:
Bex doesn't curse??

Bex is a good little Christian girl.

LOL, DL didn't curse either, but that's 'cuz he was anti-emotion boy

Shady Lane · Aug 13, 2009

aha, Bianca is a good little Christian girl too. She just snapped and said shit like five times though. It was very exciting.

Blackest_Nite · Aug 13, 2009

At my school (I'm in highschool) they read books with curse words all the time. It's not a big deal, if we're reading out loud you just replace those words with the watered down versions. I wouldn't worry too much about it, but that's just my opinion.

wandergirl · Aug 13, 2009

my book is a perfect example of cursing when it's appropriate to the character, and refraining when it's not. Mandarin, my 17yo "antagonist", curses like crazy because it fits. Grace, my 14yo MC, only curses when she's trying to emulate Mandarin, or when Mandarin encourages her to.

the only place in your question that gives me pause is the whole "my country" part. what country? is it really so strict that books with curse words flat out won't be read in middle schools? and is your country the only country where your book will be published (for now)? because in that case -- unless it would truly compromise your character to do so (like Mandarin, who would not be Mandarin without a generous helping of f-bombs) -- I might take them out.

Melissa_Marr · Aug 14, 2009

nitaworm said:
Ok, before I release my book to the printers -- should I take out the curse words if I want it read in schools? The only words I have in it is D*** and H*** (not often but at defining moments) but I want to make sure what is exceptable. My kids (12yrs and 14yrs) say its realistic to leave it in. However, the schools in our county will not allow students in middle school to read books with curse words in them.

What should I do? Keep them in / take them out?

What about High School level? I have another book that has the same words in them, but more often.

I think the question is what your target readership is. Some YA is really upper-middle-grade friendly (Ally Carter, frex, has a lot of MG age readers). Other YA is geared to teens, but reads up. I have a lot of adult readers.

I think YA tends to veer one direction or the other (accessible to MG or accessible to adult). I don't want my books read by under 12, so swearing is not a concern. I've sat on panels with other authors who purged cussing, sex, & a variety of things to make their book marketable to younger readers (& middle school libraries).

In other words, it's an authorial decision one must make as a YA author. I'm writing for young ADULTS, so my decision is very clear to me. that does not mean that my decision is right for the next author . . . It's a personal choice.

alainn_chaser · Aug 16, 2009

Melissa_Marr said:
I think the question is what your target readership is. Some YA is really upper-middle-grade friendly (Ally Carter, frex, has a lot of MG age readers). Other YA is geared to teens, but reads up. I have a lot of adult readers.

I think YA tends to veer one direction or the other (accessible to MG or accessible to adult). I don't want my books read by under 12, so swearing is not a concern. I've sat on panels with other authors who purged cussing, sex, & a variety of things to make their book marketable to younger readers (& middle school libraries).

In other words, it's an authorial decision one must make as a YA author. I'm writing for young ADULTS, so my decision is very clear to me. that does not mean that my decision is right for the next author . . . It's a personal choice.

I think this pretty much sums it up actually.

Are you writing for younger YA or older YA? Though honestly most 12-ish year olds have heared worse than the words your using. They might not use them but they've probably heard them.

We haven't read it so we can't tell you if sounds right. Do what seems right for your book. Changing things so it can be read in schools, or for audiences other than what you are writing for, will ultimately weaken your work.

Plus the chances of it getting used in most schools is pretty slim. I'm not sure where you are from but most places tend to stick with classics (ie. Catcher in the Rye, Lord of the Flies, etc.) with only a few exceptions.

Jos · Aug 16, 2009

Shady Lane said:
really, anything's okay as long as it's in character.

ABSOLUTELY. I've never censored by kids' reading, as long as I'm sure they either a) understand the subject matter or b) aren't afraid to ask any question. Middle grade or no middle grade. A little cursing isn't going to damage a 10yo's psyche.

my life is my bliss · Aug 16, 2009

I know it's a personal choice as an author, but judging from what I've seen in my kids' classrooms (I've got 5, so I've spent tons of time around them), lots of 10 year olds are uncomfortable with reading swear words. My older kids are 13 and 12, and they hate books with curse words (but then we don't use bad words in our family at all, so I know we're perhaps not the norm...). We're always super happy to find completely clean books for the kids to read, because they tend to enjoy them more when they don't have to say "It was a great book, except for <insert whatever nasty here>."

Wordwrestler · Aug 16, 2009

I'd like to add that many people find curse words more offensive in print than in everyday conversation. It's jarring to some readers.

Just something to take into consideration, although curse words are accepted in YA (12+).

If you're looking forward to having some younger readers, a few bad words might not be worth the lost sales.

It's one of those choices we make, just like anytime we make a stylistic or even plot choice that will shift the appeal of our work toward or away from certain groups of people. It sounds like your novel is in its latest stages. It is what it is. So who will it appeal to most? With that in mind, you can make your decision.

Kathleen42 · Aug 16, 2009

Shady Lane said:
I'm questioning if 10+ is YA, but...my oft quoted example--BREAK, my YA that's out in 12 days, has the word 'fuck' 87 times.

Same. My first thought was that the age sounded MG which is, of course, a very different question.

Wordwrestler · Aug 16, 2009

Books that say "10 and up" are shelved with the middle grade books in my library, not the YA section. 10-12 is upper middle grade, as far as I understand it. Usually these books are a bit scarier or have slightly more mature themes, more focus on male/female relationships, etc.

nitaworm · Aug 18, 2009

Ok, my publisher had the final say so - he said, "Take it out. We have to consider the marketing perspective. Besides, there are creative ways to express what you are trying to do with the character. You are a writer, figure it out."

Grrrrrrr....

So, I asked my kids what they would say instead of the curse word. They gave me some good stuff --- so I used it instead. Here is what they came up with...

"What the Freak"
"Fuke Off"
"A-whole"
"Son of a Beast"

and a few others that were too darned closed to the real thing that I had to raise an eyebrow, and decide I couldn't use those.

Also, the Characters are 14yrs and 15yrs old, and my son said, "Mom, I cursed at 8yrs old, and haven't stopped since." of course he hasn't slipped around me, so I giggled to myself when he said this with authority.

But in the end, I took them out...

Shady Lane · Aug 18, 2009

weird.

Curse Words in YA....for 10yrs and up ---

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