Remembering math?

[Dario D.]

I'm essentially just trying to figure out roughly how much math people remember after they've left school behind....And please don't shy away from voting if you fear your vote will be for an option that's too "pathetic" or something. (if everyone does that, the purpose of this poll is ruined) Remember that this is completely anonymous, and you don't have to post afterward to say, "Hey, I voted for the lowest option!" Not that anyone's judging, either. (or if they are, this isn't a welcome place for them)

[Puma]

I think your poll is a bit of a slap in the face and - there are also some hints you aren't quite as savvy as you think you are, i.e., can't remember how to carry (and you missed borrow) - pretty sure kids (who are now over 30) have been taught re-grouping.

And, can you tell me why, for the majority of the population, algebra is worth a hill of beans? When does a person who's not in a mathematical profession need to solve an equation for an unknown? Geometry has a few more practical applications.

I think a more interesting (and not so insulting) poll would have been how many people do their own taxes. Or, if you had stated it as how much and what level math people use in their lives now that they're past school.

And no, I didn't vote in your poll. I see no useful purpose in it as stated. And I do use math on an almost daily basis. I think you need to step back and ask yourself what your motives are in putting up a poll like this (and were you the same one with the fat people question not too long ago?) It sounds to me like you need some lessons in tact and diplomacy and true values. Puma

[StephanieFox]

I don't do my own taxes. I don't do my own anything to do with math. I am able to do multiplication and division, but I don't even know what grouping is. I'm from the era BEFORE calculators. In fact, a calculator was one of my graduation from college gifts (the other was a VW) back when they were expensive and almost magical.

I think this was a perfectly reasonable and interesting question. I always hated math and numbers, even as a kid. At age five, I had the vocabulary and verbal skills of a 10 year old, but my math ability never advanced beyond algebra and geometry and once over my requirements for those, I forgot everything. I'll bet there are other writers who are the same.

[YAwriter72]

x's and y's have completely left my head. They have been replaced with faeries and demons, hehe.

And I do my own taxes every year.

[Ms Hollands]

I have major problems with long division (Excel is king), but I remember all sorts of more complicated things from studying maths during my computer science degree.

I think what you remember depends largely on what you use regularly. When I worked in a convenience store to pay for my degrees, I became amazingly fast at adding and subtracting, but back to normal speed a few years later.

[WendyNYC]

I might be a little rusty, but I think I wouldn't have too much trouble with Algebra and Geometry. All the other stuff I can do no problem. I can (pretty much) help my daughter when she's stuck with her homework, for the time being, and they do very basic Algebra and Geometry, and have covered addition/subtraction/multiplication/division. Regrouping makes more logical sense than carrying.

Calc and up, though, forget about it.

ETA: Oh, and I don't do my own taxes, but I used to.

[johnnysannie]

Uh, being over 30 doesn't mean that you suffer from memory loss. I use math daily - from balancing the checkbook and paying bills to many other things. What math do I remember? All the math I learned how to do which in my case would be addition, subtraction, multiplication, long division, algebra, and so forth.

Not only do I use it, I on occasion teach it in school and help my kids with homework (high school age and under).

Until the past three years, I always did my own taxes but now I use software because with two working incomes and writing incomes, it became increasingly complex but I could still do it if necessary.

[RJK]

Does this poll have a purpose? If you are attempting to obtain a sample of the general public, this forum is not the place to look. The people inhabiting this forum are, for the most part, literary/creative minded, rather than math/logic minded. They do much of their processing with the right half of their brains, the creative side. People who work with math on a daily basis are using the left side of their brains, almost exclusively.

[Dommo]

That's not necessarily true. A lot of good writers are of the scientific minded. Heck, look at guys like Heinlein and Asimov. I can assure you both of those guys knew what an integral was, or what a differential equation was.

Being "literary/creative" is definitely not a reason to be math illiterate. At the very least I think every adult should be able to do basic algebra, basic geometry, fractions, and arithmetic. I think it's an interesting thing to poll, because I see A LOT of bad writing when it pertains to statistics and mathematics that go over the heads of writers(often times journalists/editors). Being able to ballpark out the math abilities of writers is actually some research that could be valuable.

[jennontheisland]

I cant' decide how to vote. I'm over 30, starting school in a month (including calculus), but I just did a physics refresher course over the spring/summer.

I've done precalculus, and I remember some of the algebra and geometry from high school. I can do long division in my head. Sometimes.

And I've done my own taxes since I was 14.

[Kathie Freeman]

My Goodness, Puma, get over yourself. I am WAY over 30, took all kinds of math classes in high school, got all A's and B's, but most of it is gone now. Like they say, use it or lose it. I sold my old slide rule on Ebay a couple of years ago 'cause I totally forgot how to use it, and anyway a calculator is so much easier. And what the heck is "re-grouping"? I can still do basic algebra, can calculate a hypoteneuse, but that's about it. Oh, and yes, I do my own taxes.

[Summonere]

I occasionally dip into geometry and algebra and whip out a physics formula or two, but that's about it. Never studied calculus, despite two helpings of said physics. Guess it wasn't needed for that, and it certainly wasn't for needed for my brace of liberal arts degrees. I have read Gödel's proof, though, from which I spin you this mathy riddle – Your question contradicts itself! – Points to anyone who can tell me what I mean without looking it up (this is a two-part question).

I do my own taxes. Sometimes the IRS agrees with my results. :)

P.S. As to diagramming sentences, I can say for a fact I've never done that in my adult life, and I don't want to.

[Linda Adams]

I never had calculus or geometry--it was not required in the school system I went to, nor was it required in college. Probably a good thing since I barely passed algebra, and that was when I was working hard trying to learn it. The truth is that when I walked out of that algebra class I wouldn't have been able to use it. I just couldn't wrap myself around the logic, especially when I worked out the answers, checked the back of the book to see they were right, and then the teacher graded me wrong because I'd gotten the formula wrong--but never bothered to explain what was wrong.

My father, who is a physics major with a strong math and programming background, said that the schools didn't teach math right. Instead, they were making it harder to learn. He always commented that math was just another language.

Basic math I do still use. Maybe not daily, but certainly weekly. When I go to the grocery store, I start adding up the cost of everything so I can stay within budget.

[Dario D.]

Thanks for the replies so far.

As for Puma:
I think your poll is a bit of a slap in the face
You might want to re-read it. I never intend to slap anybody in the face.

I think a more interesting (and not so insulting) poll would have been how many people do their own taxes.
Uhh, bear in mind that I'm doing research on THIS (remembering math). Why do you think I'd want to ask about other topics?

[semilargeintestine]

I'm not quite 30 yet, but I can still do advanced calc. It helps that I was a math major in a former life.

[Puma]

However, Dario - if you look at your original post, you don't say anywhere in it that you're doing research - "I'm just trying to figure out" is something totally different and comes across as you doing it just for the fun of it. The way you word things makes a big difference in the type of response you'll get. Give people a better idea why you're doing something / asking particular questions, i.e. are you asking because in this computer/calculator age people don't have to do math in their heads or on paper anymore? And, think your poll through a little more - differentiating addition from subtraction but not algebra from geometry is not going to give you accurate results. Additionally, when I went to school there was no such thing as pre-algebra and calculus was only taught at the college level. Define and establish your parameters a bit better and I think you'll get much more valid results - for your research. Puma

[Chase]

I'm over twice thirty, going for three times thirty. Until I retired from teaching (English, not math) I used algebra almost every day to figure percentages and grades. As a shooting competitor, I use higher math to plot loads and figure trajectories. As a beekeeper, algebra is your buddy to closely estimate hive population and placement for optimum pollination.

I've constantly thanked my math instructors when I can give students the grade they truly earned, grant myself a decided competitive and hunting edge, and farm bees in an intelligent and profitable manner.

[~*Kate*~]

I'm 29 1/2 but I rounded up and voted anyway.

[Cranky]

Before I started going back to school, the most I remembered of math was very basic algebra. I'm still at that point. Most of the algebra I am (re)learning is functionally useless to me...most of the problems I need to solve that they create algebraic expressions for can be solved with simple addition or subtraction.

I never learned maths higher than geometry and intermediate algebra to begin with, however. ETA: And I'm 33, FWIW.

[Fenika]

I'm not quite 30, but I could currently do a little basic calc with a quick refresher (I think. It's in there somewhere. *shakes brain*)

I do algebra pretty regularly I'm afraid to say, but mostly basic formulas.

For another data point: My mom helped me with my homework when I was in HS. The algebra she was pretty good at (Engineering major soon turned SAHM). Advanced algebra made her as confused as I was so she'd have to look in her book and we'd work through it together. (Eventually I'd pull it together and get As on my tests). Once I got to calc though she soon totally abandoned me and I suffered through alone. So put her down for algebra with a hint of calculus as well :)

[smcc360]

'Math'? Is that the thing my calculator does?

[MattW]

I'm 29 1/2 but I rounded up and voted anyway.
That's proper whole number rounding technique - always round to nearest even number.

[MattW]

Calculus was one of those subjects that is use it or lose it.

Algebra can be too, but the general principles I apply all the time solving for simple x's and y's, and having it ingrained as a building block for additional 7-10 years of math/science. Much of it becomes second nature as addition and subtraction did with repetition.

Calculus never got the same repetition with me, and I can't do much of it anymore. Basic integrals and derivatives, sure, but I have no need to.

Trigonometry is another story - I have no clue how I've been able to retain all of those rules and equations...

[Ruth2]

I was lousy at algebra, have the mathematical equivalent of dyslexia and haven't done my own taxes ever. Geometry's somewhat better because I can visualize it. I can also figure a tip in nothing flat.

[ResearchGuy]

Hmmm. Dunno what I can do. I seldom need more than basic arithmetic or some very simple algebra now. Once in a while (every few years) I do some reading in abstract algebra or number theory. When I was writing about regional social and economic statistics and budget issues I set up humongous spreadsheets in Excel to manage the numbers and produce graphs and tables. That might not be math per se, but requires a grasp of how the numbers interrelate.

My last math course was second semester of college calculus, more than 40 years ago. I never needed calculus after that -- just some elementary statistics.

I did not find the questionnaire to be something likely to produce useful information.

--Ken

[slcboston]

It's evil... EEEEEEvil....

unless, you know, you're an engineer or something building bridges or something else where if you forget to carry the one it could get me killed in some horrible, messy fashion.

Then it's important.

Otherwise.... EEEEEEEEvil!

[Dario D.]

However, Dario - if you look at your original post, you don't say anywhere in it that you're doing research
Right, but this forum section is "Story Research". I think it's safe to assume you missed that (but merely missing something is never a crime).

differentiating addition from subtraction but not algebra from geometry is not going to give you accurate results.
I actually did some digging around before posting this question, and learned that many western schools (but not all) teach math in the order of: Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra 2... Therefor, I couldn't put one before the other, and had to mix them.

This poll is for my own personal information, and the exact order isn't actually important to me, as long as I understand roughly the level of math people are walking around with. For the record, I posted it exactly as I saw fit, and even put more time into it than it was worth, just to nail down all the boards that nay-sayers might try to flip over... as what happened last time (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149057) I tried to post an utterly innocent similar type of question, without first analyzing every possible angle that my words could be seen from. In the case of that, as is custom on the internet, every now and then you'll just get a ridiculous public response to something... but as is NOT usually the case, sometimes it gets shut down by mods before you have time to clarify what you meant.

I'm glad at least here only one person has taken the poll to be openly offensive.

[semilargeintestine]

I forgot to add that I do my own taxes every year (no pun intended).

[dahmnait]

Since I only got through pre-algebra in high school, I am happy to say that I answered pre-algebra.



Sometimes I am amazed by what makes me proud.:)


ETA: My bf on the other hand, remembers some calculus.

[Sarpedon]

I remember some of my calculus. I can still do derivatives, but I can't recall all of the integrals stuff.

I have a fairly math rigorous job that keeps me reminded of geometry, statistics, algebra, etc.

[cbenoi1]

Math is too difficult. Let's go shopping instead.

Seriously, I could still do calculus. It's the probability and statistics that's a bit cloudy in my mind. C(m,n) and P(m,n) still make me shudder.

-cb

[Sarpedon]

You need to gamble more.

[Shadow_Ferret]

Since the invention of the electronic pocket calculator, I don't remember anything about math.

And just so you know, I never took calculus, so I have nothing to remember there.

[GordonK]

Highest maths studied in college: Linea Algebra, Discrete Math, Calculus.

Maths I can do now: multiplications/divisions (need slip of paper for long ones) but thank to concepts of math tricks I can do guestimates pretty quickly with my fingers and toes.

[frimble3]

If percents, with the X over 100 part, is algebra, I guess I remember that about algebra. I can do the basics, add, subtract, multipy, divide. I can do percentages, and work out changes in proportions, and I've always done my (admittedly simple) taxes.
I'm 50, and I remember the place where I lost any ability to do things with numbers. The third grade. My teacher started every day with flash cards, and I couldn't do them fast enough, I froze up, and the part of my brain that handles numbers never seems to have thawed.

[Chasing the Horizon]

I'm under 30, but I've been out of school for over 8 years, so I went ahead and answered the poll. I remember most of the math I actually learned, but there was a lot of other math people tried and failed to teach me. I used to think I was horrible at math, but it turns out I can learn it just fine if I actually want to. In school I pretty much never wanted to, but later I would encounter something practical that I needed the math for and learn in minutes what people wasted days trying to teach me when I was younger.

The highest math I can do right now is formulas (except I format them oddly, according to my mom, probably because I learned them from Apple help, lol). I can figure the areas and perimeters of different shapes because I use that to calculate the country sizes in my world-building. I'm great at percentages because I use them everyday, but don't remember fractions because I don't use them. I don't know if that stuff is algebra or pre-algebra, though.

[C.bronco]

I have to say, I discovered, years after college, that I enjoyed working with statistics. It's a shame I didn't double-major. I'd probably have lucrative work at this juncture had I realized it was fun.

P.S. I did a bang up job in Calc, but remember none of it, except that f(x) does something.

[ColoradoMom]

I was just thinking about this the other day - essentially about how sad it is that I can barely remember what caculus is, let alone what I learned in the class.

And I got a B+. :Shrug:

[Saint Fool]

Way over 30 and still amazed that the multiplication tables I memorized in fourth grade are still in my head.

Selected algebra/geometry, but geometry (because of its usefullness - copying dress patterns, quilting, visual design in general) is the one of the two that stuck.

However, show me one of those Train A leaves the station traveling X miles. Train B leaves traveling Y miles .... and I run away in horror!!!!

[Ravenlocks]

I have no idea how to answer this poll. When I need complicated math, I look up how to do it. Can I do it in my head? Nope. Could I ever? Nope. Is it calc or algebra or something else? Don't ask me.

[Rebekah7]

The only way I can remember math is if I constantly learn it, or spend years trying over and over again. If I don't use it for too long I will forget it and I would have to learn it all over again (of course, it would be at a faster pace than when I first learned it.) I have Dyscalculia, which some people call "math dyslexia" (because most people don't know what Dyscalculia is.)

I've been able to learn math, but not in the way other people learn it (and it took going to college to figure out a way that worked for me), and it took me a long time to learn algebra. I was actually happy that I did, because I did it even though it was hard and I had to fail at it a bunch of times before it would stick. I'll probably have to learn it again one of these days, since I don't use algebra that often, but since I've worked my butt off to learn it once, it won't bother me to do it again.

[StephanieFox]

I remember back in journalism school when I saw 235,000 x 100 worked out on the board. Even I can do that problem w/o having to figure it out.

Oh, I can do percentages in my head, if I don't need to be exact and can round off. This is helpful for tipping 20 percent and for figuring how my a percent-off sale item costs.

[Clair Dickson]

I can barely do math in my head, but when students ask for help in Algebra and Geometry, I dust off my mechanical pencil and work through the problems with them like I'm still in high school. I just can't compute without seeing the numbers. I'm an English & history teacher who also oversees the credit recovery class, where students work on any subject. I'm only 28, but I figured I'd chime in. I think it depends on the person. I'm heavily left-brained, learned Algebra as easily as breathing, but struggle(d) with Geometry. (I also prefer words over graphs and charts.) I only have to pull out my math brain every couple of months or so, but it works just fine when I do. Maybe this is often enough to keep me from losing it... except Geometry. =P

[GordonK]

I can barely do math in my head, but when students ask for help in Algebra and Geometry, I dust off my mechanical pencil and work through the problems with them like I'm still in high school.

This brings up another interesting phenomenon. I'm the kind of people who can get a 4 / 2 division wrong (happened in one of my exams) yet I aced my complex college math courses. I breezed through an accounting course when it dealt with principles. I could explain them to my blank-eyed classmates better than the professor could, yet I could never balance a book, whether during exams or in real life. I have no idea which part of my brain works and which doesn't.