The danger of falling in love, e.g. murder

The Lonely One · Jul 28, 2009

They say murder your darlings, whoever they are.

What is the danger of falling in love with sentences? Stupid question, perhaps. My mind occasionally asks the stupid and I'll accept if you smack me upside my head for this one

.

I wonder where writers draw the line when it comes to "favorite" passages or sentences; or is it that some writers fall in love with simple, straightforward prose they've written simply by the image it conveys?

I find language-heavy sentences come off more melodramatic while simple, out of the way sentences pack brick-wall punch. But the sentences people seem to enjoy on the language level, like, "oh, that sounds nice," don't give the same effect in context that they might if the writer had focused less on wording.

That's my opinion, but I just wonder how far the "murder your darlings" thing goes. Sentences that flourish over the deeper business of digging out a scene. Or maybe they do both but the writer doesn't realize they're distracting. Or something. I'm rambling now, so I'll shut up and let you try to respond to my vague question.

Thanks.

scarletpeaches · Jul 28, 2009

When the writing draws attention to itself, cut it.

If it doesn't advance plot or illustrate character and it's only there 'cause I like it, out it comes.

Choppy choppy choppy!

I've spent the past fortnight on a killing spree. I've murdered many darlings, and it feels good!

Ruth2 · Jul 28, 2009

I cheat. I have a dump file so I can save every one of my favorites. That lets me chop without guilt.

NeuroFizz · Jul 28, 2009

To add to what Scarlet said, writing for the reader means we write in ways that make that reader want to turn to the next page. That's way more important than writing so the reader will pause and get that dreamy "what beautiful prose" look (there are exceptions, some of which are genre specific).

If a writer sees a favorite sentence or passage that is being considered for cutting in edit, but hesitates because it's just so beautifully written, that writer should hack it out--the motivation for leaving it most likely centers on the writer not on the reader. And it's all about the reader--he/she is the one shelling out cash for our work.

RG570 · Jul 28, 2009

I wonder why there is this assumption that no reader wants to read nice prose; that the words are like a prostitute's body rather than a woman they care about.

OOOPS, I used an overwrought metaphor. Polizei!

LuckyH · Jul 28, 2009

There's nothing wrong with searching for the perfect sentence, that's what readers want to read; unfortunately, it's not easy.

The Lonely One · Jul 28, 2009

LuckyH: I think perhaps here we have to define "perfect," as it may equate to transparency more than anything. At least, to me. I noticed that, while an occasional phrasing sticks out as notable, most writing in a novel disappears into my brain without much of a fuss about how nice the prose was. I'm just scrambling on to the next sentence rabidly.

AuburnAssassin · Jul 28, 2009

I tend to skim / skip prose that doesn't necessarily advance the story therefore I try not to write it myself. But that's my preference and to each his own. I like character development through action and witty dialogue, excruciatingly detailed scenery descriptions and allegorical descriptions of thoughts and impressions, not so much.

Jean Auel's Clan of the Cave Bear series (which despite their excessive lengths, I liked once upon a time) had pages and pages and pages of descriptions of the flora and fauna of the time. Me: OK she's in Neanderthal / Cro-Magnon times so the critters and veggies are different. Got it. flip skim, flip skim, flip skim, flip skim, yawn...when does Ayla actually meet someone, think about something or do something? Ah here we go...finally. I can appreciate all the research she must have done but if I wanted to know that much about the setting, I'd buy a non-fiction book on it.

C.M.C. · Jul 28, 2009

If there's a particular piece that I happen to love, I leave it, no matter what. I'm writing for myself, because I view writing for others to be a losing proposition. There are always going to be more people who don't like what you do than there will be those who do like it, so I would rather make myself happy than worry about the exact proportion of fans versus non-fans.

kaitlin008 · Jul 28, 2009

I do the same thing as Ruth2--for sentences/parts that I really love (for whatever reason, even if they're crappily written) but that need to be cut, I have a document. Then I still have them.

When it comes to cutting sentences or words or paragraphs or scenes, if it isn't helping my story, then it goes. I want to love my story as a whole, so I can sacrifice some small pieces in the process and be perfectly alright with that.

scarletpeaches · Jul 28, 2009

RG570 said:
I wonder why there is this assumption that no reader wants to read nice prose; that the words are like a prostitute's body rather than a woman they care about.

OOOPS, I used an overwrought metaphor. Polizei!

No one has assumed a reader doesn't want to read nice prose.

The reader wants prose that fits with the story and the story better be damn good as well.

If your book's all fur coat and no knickers, you've got a problem.

willietheshakes · Jul 28, 2009

scarletpeaches said:
If your book's all fur coat and no knickers, you've got a problem.

Um...

All fur coat and no knickers...

Problem?

quickWit · Jul 28, 2009

willietheshakes said:
Um...

All fur coat and no knickers...

Problem?

...must be a Scottish thing.

aadams73 · Jul 28, 2009

The Lonely One said:
Or maybe they do both but the writer doesn't realize they're distracting.

Here's the thing: I think it comes down to--for me, at least--experience. You slap enough words on paper and eventually you're going to start seeing the problems not just as they hit the page, but as they dance through your head. It's becoming increasingly rare for me to put something on the page that doesn't serve the story. Not to say I don't have those moments, but as I grow as I writer they become less frequent. And I have no problem with offing their heads as soon as I see them.

(Usually this means copying and pasting it to a junk file so I can admire them and go, "Oooh, pretty!")

This is why you should write, write, write and read, read, read.

scarletpeaches · Jul 28, 2009

Aye. What the whore above me said.

It's not that we're bragging about our Golden Prose, just that our writing naturally improves as we read and write more. It can't not. A great deal of writing is in the author's life experience and as long as you keep your mind and legs open, the simple act of writing every day will bring about an improvement.

ishtar'sgate · Jul 28, 2009

C.M.C. said:
If there's a particular piece that I happen to love, I leave it, no matter what. I'm writing for myself, because I view writing for others to be a losing proposition. There are always going to be more people who don't like what you do than there will be those who do like it, so I would rather make myself happy than worry about the exact proportion of fans versus non-fans.

Me too. I write for myself, to please my own sense of what sounds good. Some people like it, some people don't. The only time I ditch a phrase I like is when I'm ditching the entire scene or paragraph because it doesn't do anything for the story.

Matera the Mad · Jul 28, 2009

New writers don't fall in love with their prose because it's good. They fall in love because it is their First-Born Inspiration (visualize color and fancy font). It is so wonderful because they wrote it, they Expressed their Creative Souls. Because it is so wonderful and Inspired, they can't see it without their rosy specs. I wrote Dead Sentences after a distasteful encounter with a darlingist some years ago. The examples are based on real...stuff.

We all add a few unnecessary touches now and then. I have mass graves filled with my own cleverness.

NeuroFizz · Jul 28, 2009

Beautiful prose that is fully integrated into the story is doubly beautiful and won't be considered for being cut. It's the sentence or passage that we know could or should be cut, but we hesitate because it contains a nice poetic ring or great turn of phrase, that we are talking about here.

I seriously doubt anyone here works hard to create sterile prose (unless a part of a story calls for it).

The danger of falling in love, e.g. murder

The Lonely One

Why is a raven like a writing desk?

scarletpeaches

Ruth2

Tam, na Koncu Drevoreda

NeuroFizz

The grad students did it

RG570

LuckyH

Oh, really?

The Lonely One

Why is a raven like a writing desk?

AuburnAssassin

Darkly Romantic Curmudgeon

C.M.C.

Archetype

kaitlin008

Seeing newness all the time

scarletpeaches

willietheshakes

Gentleman. Scholar. Bastard.

quickWit

Totally Ninja!

aadams73

A Work in Progress

scarletpeaches

ishtar'sgate

living in the past

Matera the Mad

Bartender, gimme a Linux Mint

NeuroFizz

The grad students did it