1st person POV and gender

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AMCrenshaw

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How do you reveal the gender of your first-person narrator? (Have fun)



AMC


90% of the time, name-dropping would suffice. But let's be creative...
 
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Lisa Cox

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A quick flash in the woods.

(Don't know. I've not written 1st person much. I'm so helpful!)
 

RJK

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This is the first line of my WIP:
There she was again. I saw her yesterday, on the elevator in the Hotel Harrington where I was staying.
What does it tell you about the POV character's gender?
 

RG570

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I hardly write in first person, but last time I did, the trick was to have the narrator admit to feeling "like a daughter" towards the other character in the scene.
 

SPMiller

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Name-dropping can be difficult. Real people rarely use names in dialog, and few if any think about themselves in the third person.

Writing that a character is attracted to any given character doesn't help much. Characters can be straight, gay, or somewhere in between. But the narrator could give an extra hint toward orientation.

Of course, you could mention primary or secondary sex characteristics or other issues directly related to sex. However, these details aren't often important to the plot.

You might throw in a "sir" or "ma'am" from random throwaway characters.

Sometimes, I write stories in which I give no clue whatsoever about the protagonist's sex. In others, I give it away in the first paragraph (e.g., indicating that the protag is pregnant). It all depends on how much sex matters to the plot or to understanding the protag.
 
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raburrell

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Short answer is voice. If your MC talks like a woman, she's a woman. (or vice-versa)
 

Cathy C

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I usually have someone else call the person by name, or have them flip through mail. That's a favorite of mine because most all of us get junk mail with the wrong gender and we inevitably toss it BECAUSE it's the wrong gender. Hey, if the sender can't even be bothered to find out if I'm male or female, I can't be bothered to open the envelope! LOL!
 

Wark

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"I was always better at math than the girls" vs "I was always better at math than the other girls."

But let's not stereotype here. I was much worse at math than the girls. Except the dumb ones.
 

RJK

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In the case of my WIP, I removed all doubt with self introductions, less than 600 words later.
The point I was trying to make, was the POV character's attraction to the female, assuming the author is not pulling a fast one, should give the reader a good idea what gender he is. There are other, cruder methods, adjusting his equipment, thoughts of sexual intercourse, or non-sexual related manly activities and thoughts. Those, however are becoming harder to define in today's world.

Talking like a man or woman? Or, male voice ore femal voice? I have a sister-in-law who is active in home construction. other than the pitch of her voice, I challenge anyone to tell whether you're listening to a man or woman.
 
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SPMiller

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This is the first line of my WIP:

What does it tell you about the POV character's gender?
Nothing.

I make sure they either sit or stand to pee in the first two paragraphs.
Doesn't help. Some dudes sit to pee. And, apparently, some women stand. Google it yourself; I'm not linking.

Short answer is voice. If your MC talks like a woman, she's a woman. (or vice-versa)
You might think so in a gender sense. But no, this is wrong. Some women with both female sex and gender don't talk like women.
 
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raburrell

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Nothing.
You might think so in a gender sense. But no, this is wrong.
If so (and I disagree), a reason would help here...
eta, per your clarification. And that's still a question of voice. A woman like you're postulating must still be properly voiced.
 

Libbie

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In the case of my WIP, I removed all doubt with self introductions, less than 600 words later.
The point I was trying to make, was the POV character's attraction to the female, assuming the author is not pulling a fast one, should give the reader a good idea what gender he is.

But that opening line alone really doesn't give any clue to the MC's gender whatsoever.

First of all, it's not clear by what you posted that the narrator is attracted to the woman. He just notices her. Any character -- male or female, gay or straight -- could have any reason for noticing a person who appears again and again in their landscape.

Second, why would an author writing from the POV of a gay character be "pulling a fast one?" I just don't get that. I don't care what gender the MC I'm reading is attracted to, unless that is significant to the plot. A character's sexual orientation doesn't even register in my brain unless it changes plot. I just assume sex-preference-neutrality in any character I read until and unless the author gives me some reason to see the character in a different light.
 

SPMiller

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If so (and I disagree), a reason would help here...
eta, per your clarification. And that's still a question of voice. A woman like you're postulating must still be properly voiced.
Doesn't matter. You can't 100% reliably tell sex or gender from voice. And I'm not postulating the existence of these women. They exist, period.

But go ahead and try to define "properly voiced".
 

lute

I'm a fan of leaving it fairly ambiguous until the moment becomes critical for the reader to know. Usually though, the reader will know before they begin to read anyway because of the synopsis either you have given to the reader, or if it's published, on the back cover and/or dust jacket.

If you're not banking on that, then I would go about it as casually as possible. Give little hints here and there. Maybe what the character focuses on, or finds attractive (though in this day and age, and in my case as well, that can go both ways) would give some kind of an idea for the reader. Dialogue could potentially work too ("You're a slippery little bastard/bitch," would make the reader assume that the character who is being spoken to is male/female, respectively, in most cases) or some kind of action involving the description of a part of the character's body that would force the readers to understand their gender. Does your male main character have facial hair? Does he shave his face? Maybe your female main character is putting on mascara. There are always reasons for doubt, even with the examples I've given here, but based on what the average reader knows, one would naturally associate facial hair = man and mascara = woman, unless clearly stated otherwise.

Give it a try, see what works best for you. I wouldn't honestly get all worked up about it. Eventually, if you are writing in first person, their gender will come through through some means, even if it's not clearly stated on page one.
 
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AMCrenshaw

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Well 'standing or sitting' is a good way of hinting at gender for 99%* reliability, but how much can a plot move when the MC's on the pot?

Name-dropping can take many forms: my name is Abraham Moses Cremshaw; apt box, cell phone or any phone (Abraham speaking).


Voice is good too. Remember as writers a part of our skill set is knowing tropes, knowing preconceptions; another is how to avoid or abuse them. But the usage of our tools should always be deliberate. The effect of having a Manly voice only to discover the narrator is a woman, for example (it shouldn't be an accident, right, that for 30 pages I thought this narrator was a man when it's really a woman).



AMC


* made that up




ETA: and I thought of something I found funny-- with unreliable narrators, maybe the gender can get really confused!
 
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raburrell

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By postulating, I meant 'using as your example'.
By 'properly voiced', I mean a character who comes across as a vivid, living, breathing person in his/her own narrative. 1st POV writing without a strong voice inevitably fails.
 

SPMiller

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Voice is good too. Remember as writers a part of our skill set is knowing tropes, knowing preconceptions; another is how to avoid or abuse them. But the usage of our tools should always be deliberate. The effect of having a Manly voice only to discover the narrator is a woman, for example (it shouldn't be an accident, right, that for 30 pages I thought this narrator was a man when it's really a woman).
For the record, I love playing voice games with readers specifically because they're likely to make inaccurate assumptions based on their biases. That's why this thread is so delightful, and thank you for starting it.

ETA: and I thought of something I found funny-- with unreliable narrators, maybe the gender can get really confused!
But this is just cruel :tongue
 

SPMiller

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By 'properly voiced', I mean a character who comes across as a vivid, living, breathing person in his/her own narrative. 1st POV writing without a strong voice inevitably fails.
Oh, sure, I agree, but that's not the same as claiming you can always tell sex/gender from voice. Because you can't.
 

AMCrenshaw

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I'm a fan of leaving it fairly ambiguous until the moment becomes critical for the reader to know.


See that's how I am, but this thread is spurred by separate feedback from different editors at different litmags, etc. that expressed annoyance that they had no idea what the gender of the narrator was. It kept them from being grounded in the physicality of the story. It's all a different matter with novels, of course. You get that room to breathe, and the opportunity to tell some of the story before it's being read.


AMC
 

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Someone could grab their breast, kick them in the crotch, or have someone talk to them about a gender-specific topic.
 
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