When does it become a rip off?

CACTUSWENDY · Jul 26, 2009

An interesting concept has come up into my thinking and I was wondering what you all might think about it.

We have some really talented horror hounds on this forum. You know who you are....lol.

We have respect for each other and support each others works. This is all well and good and is like it should be.

Now my problem. After reading something someone posts in the SYW area it sometimes sets my old brain a ticking. The concept is good and I see how I might do a different twist or a different take on it. But, because I would never 'steal' anyone's idea or story I let it go.

When we read published works of authors sometimes it sparks an idea for us do. When does it border on 'stealing' and being original?

The last thing I would ever want to do is mess with the SYW. I have learned so much from seeing how others handle horror. I stand in awe of many of you.

When we did Trisha's nightmare we all came out with different styles of a story. None were just alike. How would you feel if someone did a 'take' on one of your stories? Would you feel ripped off? Would you feel like posting in the SYW was not a good thing?

Again, I am very interested in your thoughts on this. Thanks.

alleycat · Jul 26, 2009

A few times I've gotten a spark of any idea from something someone else posted (one I remember wasn't even a WIP, but just something they said). It's not really surprising; ideas comes from all sorts of places. I then sent the original poster a private message telling them my idea and that it was inspired by something they posted and asking if they thought it was okay if I ran with my idea, or whether they thought it could in any way be considered crossing the line into theft. The replies have always been positive. Generally the person didn't even think my idea was that close to theirs.

Lisa Cox · Jul 26, 2009

I think there's a difference between ripping off someone's idea, and seeing a concept you like and making it your own. What's that phrase about there only being so many different plots in the world, and we're all borrowing everybody's ideas and putting our own mark on it? I can't remember.

Anyway, the point is -- as writers, we see material all around us, whether it be in the park, the supermarket, or in someone else's story. I think it's perfectly fine to take a concept and make it our own as long as it doesn't at all resemble the previous writer's work. The idea is to create our own work, not alter a few details in someone else's.

I know I'm not making much sense. I've had a bad day! :/

ETA: alleycat said what I was trying to get at -- inspiration, not stealing. Why can't I word my comments as clearly as that?

Pepper Jay · Jul 26, 2009

I think writers in the vampire genre are constantly ripping each other off or I’m sorry… getting inspired by each other. Look at Twilight for example those books are nothing but a big old patch work of other stories and characters.

The key is to add and twist so the story or character becomes your own.

alleycat · Jul 26, 2009

lisamarie84x said:
I think there's a difference between ripping off someone's idea, and seeing a concept you like and making it your own. What's that phrase about there only being so many different plots in the world, and we're all borrowing everybody's ideas and putting our own mark on it? I can't remember.

Anyway, the point is -- as writers, we see material all around us, whether it be in the park, the supermarket, or in someone else's story. I think it's perfectly fine to take a concept and make it our own as long as it doesn't at all resemble the previous writer's work. The idea is to create our own work, not alter a few details in someone else's.

I know I'm not making much sense. I've had a bad day! :/

ETA: alleycat said what I was trying to get at -- inspiration, not stealing. Why can't I word my comments as clearly as that?

I understand what you mean, and we're both basically saying the same thing. Ideas can comes from anywhere, even other people's stories, whether published or posted here on AW.

---

The main thing to consider is whether someone is just inspired by something, or gets an idea from someone else's work, but makes their own work truly their own. Taking whole plots and characters from someone else's work is probably crossing the line. If there's any doubt, contact the person involved and discuss it with them to makes sure that's no hard feelings or disappointments later.

FOTSGreg · Jul 26, 2009

I think lisamarie nailed it on this one. Ideas are a dime a dozen, but it's how you treat the idea that makes all the difference.

There's a theory somewhere that essentially states there are only X many story concepts or themes and that every story written or told falls into 1 of these basic concepts or themes. Every story is different, however, because of the way the author treats that basic concept or theme.

So, if I ever come up with an ide that you think would make a cool story, steal it and make it your own. Chances are very high that what you come up with will be significantly different enough from what I come up with that both stories would be independently publishable.

Remember, someone once said "All artists steal. Great artists not only steal, they tell you who they stole from."

alleycat · Jul 26, 2009

FOTSGreg said:
I think lisamarie nailed it on this one. Ideas are a dime a dozen, but it's how you treat the idea that makes all the difference.

Absolutely.

I have a file I keep of possible titles and story ideas for later use; sometimes the idea is just the more basic of a premise, and sometimes it's quite detailed, almost a mini-synopsis. The last time I looked the file was about 60 pages long.

And if someone is new to writing, or gets stuck and just can't think of anything to write about, if they tell us a little about what they want to write, the members here will be glad to offer some suggestions just to get the person going. In other words, most of us here will be glad to share ideas, or help someone come up with one.

FOTSGreg · Jul 26, 2009

Oh, BTW there are standards for plagiarism and derivative works. I'm not entirely certain what the plagiarism standards are, but derivative works must be more than 50% original for them to not be considered derivative.

If you just copy somebody else's work, you're plagiarizing. Where swiping an idea and using it for your own and actual plagiarism occurs and crosses the line is a hotly-debated issue and one for the courts, but it's generally a bad idea to copy somebody else's work word-for-word or even use their plotline completely without significant alteration.

BigWords · Jul 27, 2009

I've written maybe thirty or so short stories which have been based on an idea, a suggestion or just a general sense of "Oh yeah, that is so cool... Lemme try it."
I can see where the temptation to riff on an idea comes from.

1. Always (but ALWAYS) say that you got the idea from whoever it was that got the spark going in your mind. It's courtesy, and it shows you aren't just gonna magpie everything. In a couple of lines prefacing the story, or after the end is fine.
2. Make sure that you do not use any of the keystones which hold the other story up, i.e. having a similar character perform a similar function. Make the story your own.
3. Make sure that whoever's idea it is knows that you are writing your story. PM them, or send an e-mail.

Deviation is the key. I know there is no way I could try to re-write someone else's work in a similar style, 'cause I would end up throwing in a few curve balls just for the fun of it.

alcoholicnightterror · Jul 27, 2009

presentation is god...if you always try to be original... this hassle will probly go with the year's worth of unused pollen.

EFCollins · Jul 28, 2009

I've had this happen. I hope she won't mind me using her as an example... but she stated it in SYW in response to my story, so it's not like no one here knows.

I think it was the April or May prompt. I wrote that story "Dismembered" for. Kara (Kmcelhinny) said something along the lines of "Holy cow! This gives me an idea for my own prompt!" Her story was also about cannibalism, but totally different and horrific in a different way. I loved it and the fact that I gave her the idea was just wicked. I was so proud of her for that story (Titled Pie or Cherry Pie) and we instantly became friends. I think her, Damien and I have similar mindsets though we write very differently from one another. I know I've learned a lot from the other hounds and am more than proud to call myself one.

Ripping off? No. Inspired? Yes. It's only a rip off if it's the exact same story with subtle changes. If you write something that is just an idea you got from their tale or a portion of... then that's something ALL writers do.

When does it become a rip off?

CACTUSWENDY

An old, sappy, and happy one.

alleycat

Still around

Lisa Cox

Pepper Jay

alleycat

Still around

FOTSGreg

Today is your last day.

alleycat

Still around

FOTSGreg

Today is your last day.

BigWords

Geekzilla

alcoholicnightterror

EFCollins

World Class Rambler